A Conversation with Anderson University Coach – Albert Mitchell

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Welcome to another episode of In the Crease, where we like to, you know, showcase Division II lacrosse, men's lacrosse, actually. I'm your co-host, Kevin Stenstrom, and as always, with me is Danny Moran, co-host Extraordinaire. Hey Danny, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:37

I'm good, Kev. Thanks for the nice intro. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:59

And we're really excited about that, as always, because it's really great to get their insight, see what their college program is like, what it's like in their conference, and really what it's like to compete in in Division II Lacrosse. And I can't wait to get started today because today we're talking with a coach who his team's first year last season made some real noise in D2 lacrosse and their conference, the SAC, which is probably one of the toughest conferences in D2, in my opinion. So with us tonight, Coach Albert Mitchell of Anderson University. How are you doing, Coach?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

I'm great. I'm great. How are you guys? Thanks for the uh the intro there. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Yeah, we're doing well. We're really excited to have you on. Um, so let's just get started into it. I mean, let's just start with uh I'd like to know, you know, what it's like to really start up a program, you know, from from scratch, like you've had to do, and especially like I said in the intro, in a conference like the SAC.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah, it's um it was a lot, and uh it was a good a lot in uh what I mean by that. Um, you know, you you start the program, you think, you know, you just got recruiting and that's it, but really you're you're building the infrastructure. Um, you know, there were no goals when we got to when we got to campus. You know, they they had never no one had ever seen the sport, no one really understood how it went. So um and a lot of people just had a different view of what lacrosse was. Um, you know, they hear the reputation and they hear all that, and and you got to get around campus, you gotta make sure you know you're uh representing the program well and the sport well. So um yeah, it was a lot, it was a lot more than I thought it would be, but it was a lot of fun too. We got to meet a lot of people really quickly, and uh they've been so receptive down at Anderson and uh it's just Anderson is just always filled with great people. Um, but it it was a lot of fun, it was a lot of challenge uh just getting the name out there and getting the word out there that we we started this program, especially at the time that I was hired. Um I was hired in August of 2019. And uh most of the time when you're in division two, you're recruiting, you're getting kids uh, you know, your your incoming class that year, your rising seniors, you're getting them on campus in June or July. Well, I never really had that option. Um, I started to make some calls kind of off the book um, you know, in in July, just saying, hey, you know, this this is happening. I uh I might be changing schools here, would you be interested? Um, but I didn't even get down to campus until August 4th. So um from there it was let's get this thing going as quickly as possible. And you know, once we once we got people on campus and the word got out there about the school, and you know, as soon as you get your first commit, getting that second commit's a little bit easier and uh and so on and so on, because you're always gonna have those questions of what if you don't get a team on campus. And um my answer to that was always, well, then I I will lose my job. So uh I better get that team. But um yeah, as you start to get more and more, it gets easier and easier. And um, then the transfers start to come in. And we were we were very, very fortunate to get uh five transfers in our first year and um some really good leaders in that program. One one in particular who who just graduated, a uh graduate student for us, uh coming down from St. Rose, Jack Zilkney uh did a great job for us and set that foundation. We had two great guys that are coming back this year, Riley Zopfi and Bo Henson, that uh transferred in from Young Harris and had an interesting situation there. And um they learned from that experience. And um, and and they showed, you know, not only what what we have to do off the field, but what how we have to work on the field too, and uh and what that really looks like because a team full of freshmen doesn't really know uh until they they get smacked in the mouth that first time. And in the fall, we didn't we didn't scrimmage anybody. Uh so our first competition was in the spring. And um, to have that leadership around was great. Um, so I know I strayed away from that, uh, the the start of that question a little bit, but that's okay. That's okay, Code. Yeah, it was an awesome experience. And uh I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I don't know if I'll ever do it again. Uh because you go you go to sleep for those first couple of months, man. It it's tough. It's it's your your mind's racing. You know, what what are we gonna do? What holes do we have to fill? Are are we moving too fast? Are we moving too slow? Um, but it it was fun. And um, yeah, I'll I'll say it definitely makes me feel closer to this team than than I could have ever felt. And uh proud more definitely more than I've ever been to any other team that I've coached. Um, you know, I was also an assistant, so that changes things too. But um, man, it it's a great uh great feeling to be around those guys that you've brought in and uh they bought into your mission. Um so it's been awesome.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's like your baby, right? That not only yours, but then the team. The team buys into it and what you're doing, it's you're all together building something, you know, you're like the a foundation, which is just it's incredible. I've seen that, you know, when I in my Navy career when you're starting with a brand new, you know, squadron that's just starting up or something like that. It's the same sort of feeling, I would assume.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Oh, yeah. The the enthusiasm's high, the endorphins are flying, you're just excited and ready to go. And and you really have the opportunity to make it everything that you want it to be, right? Because you bought into to what they've sold you, and I don't think we uh we were selling any false dreams or anything like that. And they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into and and uh who I was, I am who I am. I the same person you're talking to now is the same guy on the field that might might get a little louder every now and then. But um, you know, I they they just it it was all of us coming together with with the same goal. Um, and in that first year at least, and and what we've seen so far in the start of the semester, everyone's on the same page and and and we're ready to get rocking and rolling and hopefully building this thing even farther than we have and get a lot of work to do with that. But um, well, I think we're we're heading in the right direction at least.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

So now, coach, now you you know you had to talk about recruiting on such a quick, fast pace, and then and the stress that's involved with that, and then you have to add in the COVID. Uh, how did that affect uh you and the team and the university the in the in the recruiting stages during COVID? I'm sure it was quite crazy.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

It it was. Um, you know, we we were rocking and rolling, and I think we had somewhere around like high 20s come February, and and when this thing really started to ramp up, we we had a few verbal commitments or guys that were getting close, but uh once the COVID shutdown hit, they went dead period and we couldn't sign anybody. Um, so that slowed us up a little bit. Uh, we did get a couple of verbals during COVID, which was nice. Um, but you know, you can't go out and see high school games. We were gonna really try to get an early start on our 21 class uh and go out and watch a ton of high school games. I was fortunate enough to have an assistant uh my first year there that was full time in Matt Ladon. Um so the the two of us were we're just gonna split up and and really crush, you know, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and and even maybe get up to Maryland or Virginia, but we just never had that opportunity. So um fortunately for us, it didn't slow us down too much. I love our 2021 class, and I'm really excited to see how they blend in uh this year. But it would have been nice to do that and also show a little bit of support to our incoming 20s as they uh they finish up their senior year. But um another thing that kind of was a blessing in disguise was our 2020s came in really hungry. Um, you know, they they lost their senior season and uh and coming in, you know, they already they already knew that this was gonna be their program to start it off. You know, they're the first class ever. And and having lost their senior year, um, you know, they came in with just a different fire, uh, which was great. We really hit the ground running uh a lot faster than I thought we would. Um, yeah, there was still a lot of things we had to teach and a lot of things we had to get by. But um, I think one thing that has led to a little bit of our early success and um at least been able to keep us in games that we wouldn't probably normally be in as far as our talent and skill goes, and maybe lacrosse IQ was just how hard we played. And uh and I was really excited to see that. And it started in the fall and it went all the way up until um I think it was April 22nd or whatever it is when we played limestone in the playoffs. Um, and they never lost that. And I hope that stays with us. So um it was interesting for sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

I watched at least four or five games of that you guys played this year, and I was really impressed with your team for a first-year program. I mean, you started out what four and oh, uh, four and one, four and one.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Barton nipped us there, and it it that was a tough one, man.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

We uh yeah, I remember that one.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Yeah, it was a cold one. I don't think any of our guys had ever played in that type of weather, besides maybe uh maybe our Connecticut and New York guys, but uh we only had a few of those. But yeah, that was a tough one, hard fought battle. Coach Schuma, he uh he gets those guys going and they put they play really hard up there too. So it was just two two tough teams, two young programs, and and they got us, you know. I'm looking forward to having them down here next year. Uh they're gonna they're gonna redo the trip, but it's uh that that was an intense game for sure. 15-14, a lot of scoring in that one.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

What did it feel like? What was your team like? Were they kind of uh was it tough to try to keep them grounded when they started off? I mean, a brand new program starting off four and one. I mean, you know, that's just awesome. Awesome to see, awesome to be a part of, I'm sure. But at the same time, there's there's gotta, I would assume there's gotta be some sort of grounding that, hey guys, we started off great, but there's a lot more to go.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think in a lot of ways in our first game, especially, we willed ourselves to win. Uh, and we we we had some some bad habits uh that didn't necessarily uh come back to bite us because we were just playing so hard and we were so excited. And uh that carried into our second game, Alabama Huntsville. Um and it was it was a fight because you know you get 18-year-olds, they're they hear how great they are all the time. And um the level of support in the university is already so high. Uh we're fortunate enough to have a great community around us that just loves athletics and um people that were just very interested in what the sport was, or you know, they had never seen sticks and helmets like that. Um, so it was a challenge for sure to to keep them grounded and level-headed. Um, and I I think we got uh we got humbled a little bit in the upcoming games. Um, but it it it was cool and and they did respond pretty well, I will say. Um as much as I tried to hammer it home that they they weren't all that and super special and and all that, and uh they they never took it to an extreme where it was it hurt them. Uh right, but it it it was something that was talked about a lot.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

So, really funny, really quickly, really quickly, just uh when you said people seeing games with sticks, right? I when our son started playing again, my wife always tells a story that you know, here he was. Uh you always tell your kids, don't run with sticks, don't hit people. And this sport, now we're yelling at our son, why don't you hit that guy? You know, so it's just kind of funny how you just switch, you know, you switch for it, it it's uh it's a violent sport.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Um, you know, I that's what I loved about it, honestly, as a kid. Football lacrosse, you know, you you get that aggression out. Um it it it's uh and you don't see it really, you know, because ice hockey, it's it's more of a northeastern or I well, I guess it's in Tampa now, apparently. Um, people just don't really see hockey because it's it's indoors, you know, ring time is is short. And um the speed of the game and and with the sticks and all that, I mean, it's so cool, and you can use them very physically. And the physicality is, you know, it's borderline football. Um, our our kids feel like they're in a car accident every time they play. Um, and I'm sure that's every team across the country, and it should be that way. Um, you know, fortunately, the protection is getting a lot better than it was uh back when I played or you know, 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 30 years ago, whatever it is. Um, but it it's a it's an awesome sport with that, and and people love watching that for the first time, especially.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Oh, it is an awesome sport. I couldn't agree with you more. I never played the game, um, but I fell in love with it. Long Island guy, you know, my kids started playing at a young age, young. And Long Island uh lacrosse is king here, you know. And uh and I I uh first I first started going to practices uh for me it was like watching grass grow. I knew nothing about the game. Uh I I really didn't know the rules, but but now I I just absolutely love it. I uh I watch so much lacrosse and uh all three of my three boys, my older two played uh division two. My youngest is committed uh to play division two. He's going into his senior year of high school. But uh getting back to like the SAC and where you guys are and being a young team, you're in a great conference. I mean, year after year, you're going to be playing uh top-notch uh uh schools, top-notch lacrosse schools. I think that's that's only gonna abode better for your for your program. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 14:10

I agree. Um, a lot of people in in a lot of circles told me, you know, how scared I had to be and what do I really want to be in this job? First year program, limestone's coming into the conference. Um, you know, are you sure you could win there type of thing? And uh my answer is we you can win really anywhere as long as you're you're bringing the right players and you're coaching the right way and you're doing everything else the right way too. Um, so for me, I I love the competition. I think it makes us better. Uh, we we want to play a tough conference schedule. We want to play a tough out-of-conference schedule. Um, because you're you're if you're playing at a lower level, you're gonna stay at that lower level. It's really, really tough to break through if the the teams you're lining up against, you're not being challenged on game day. It's really, really tough to break through, especially you know, when if you do win a weaker conference or you do have enough wins against weaker opponents and you get into the NCAA tournament, now you're at a whole new level that you've never been at before. Um and for us, you know, I I think that's raised our recruiting too. Uh kids want to play against the best. I mean, at least the players that you want to have want to play against the best, right? You want those competitors, those fighters out there that they want to say, you know, no, you're not better than me. Uh I'm gonna take you on. So um for me and the way I like to coach and the way I like to recruit and the kids we like to bring in, um, it's only been a positive for us. Now, it'd be nice to win a few more games, not gonna lie. You know, we we definitely want to get there a little bit quicker than uh than than probably is uh expected. Um, but and that's gonna make it harder. But for me, I think it will pay off in the long run. And that's what we tell everybody when we recruit and and who we talk to. And um, I I love it because every game is a challenge. You know, you talk about having fun with it. Every single game, I gotta coach my best game possible. You know, every single game, my players got to bring their A game. And if we don't, then we're gonna lose. So, and that's kind of you know, that that's the microcosm that lacrosse is of life. You know, if you don't bring your A game on every single day, you know, things aren't gonna go your way. Um, and you gotta you gotta fight for it too. You gotta have effort. So um I love it, but it definitely uh it's a challenge for sure. Yeah, you know, it's it's a that's a a tall mountain to climb with with LR, Wingay, Queens, uh, limestone, Catawba, um, Newberry. I mean, every team in our conference has received votes at some point in the last five years. Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

It's and and so going to that, I mean, I, you know, that's kind of, you know, last season when you played, when you got to the meat of the of your schedule and you started playing, who you just talked about, Queens, Wingate, LR, Catawba, Newberry, and you started getting those losses in this tough conference. Is there anything specific that you think um you and your team were able to take away from those games to to build from, to learn from?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, we we uh just being a younger program, we broke down a little bit uh come the end of the year. Uh, we had a lot of really key injuries um in in certain positions that really hurt us, but also kind of showed us when we came to fight, we could hang with anybody. We might not win just yet, you know, and and we we gotta keep pushing to be able to break through that. But if we're if we're bringing our A game and at least with our effort and our intensity, we can play at that highest level. Um, even though it might not pay off for us now, it will pay off for us in four, five, ten years. Uh, I think our team has actually bought into the idea of building not just a team, but a program. Uh, so it was good to have that early success for sure. But then, you know, losing those games at the end, it in the way we lost them, um, I think it couldn't have been uh a better loss for if that makes any sense to anyone out there. But um, it shows that we can be with anyone. We were we were within three goals of every game this past year in the fourth quarter, minus um minus LR, wingate, you know, two national semifinalists and uh and Newbury. And and we lost our all-American face-off guy in starting goalie in that game. Not that there's any excuse. Those those guys were they they played hard this year, and they they're a good team. They're gonna be great, yeah, you know, coming out. But um, and then our our playoff game against Limestone, which was a uh an interesting situation, but we we were that we were within a goal, I think, or two goals in the fourth quarter um before they they pulled away. So it showed our team we can we can play with anybody. We just gotta get better. Uh and and we got to stay at this level of uh of competition and and um energy on the field on game day and and in practice too.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

You have one player on your team that just caught my eye right away, and and that's your face off kid. Let's talk about Cam. Okay. Talk about him. Let's talk about him.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Cam uh man, I I that kid works his tail off. Um, you know, he he's a special, special talent, obviously. Um to to be recognized at the level that he has been is just I mean, it's all credit to his work ethic, honestly. He is very talented for sure, but nobody wants to be a better face-off guy, I think Cam Weeks. Uh, I mean, he he I think he's got a turf mat in his room. He's always taking face-offs, he's always lifting. I mean, his dad tells me all the time he's doing all sorts of push-ups in his room. And I like, Doug, I can't hear that. But uh, you know, he no one, no one fights harder than he does. He has our our fastest wall ball time. Um, so he's always working on that. He he's always in the gym. Um, and and and he just wants it. And and he's actually made our other face-off guys better too, just just being able to go against them every single day. And uh, I'm excited for him. You know, we we got really lucky with him. He was he was committed to another school um all the way up until June of 20 uh 2020 and wanted to stay closer to home, actually grew up in the city of Anderson uh before moving to Charleston and uh and Northern Virginia. Um, so he was comfortable with the area and and and saw you know the school is building the lacrosse program and and likes the way we're doing things. And we just got super lucky. You know, we hit the lottery. We hit the lottery with a couple of our guys that um you know you don't see on on very many uh first year programs. And and I'm we were very blessed on that. It was honestly a lot of luck and uh mostly the school doing the work, not not me. Uh, but he he in particular, um, I just can't commend him enough on his work ethic on the field. Uh no one wants it better than more than he does. Um, and it pays off for him. And and I hope it shows the rest of our team and really anyone in the country. Um, you know, if you want to be a great lacrosse player, you got to work hard and and um really take it to that next level. So um I know uh I he's the he's the topic of every conversation I have with every every other coach I see on the road or uh he's impressive.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

I know I wouldn't doubt that.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

I would not doubt that.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Because we talked about him on one of our earlier podcasts. We spoke about Cam and what a job he was doing. He was just he's getting you possession after possession after possession. And I think in order to be a successful team, that's that's half the battle right there, getting possession. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

I I was a face-off guy myself, so I tell him all the time it's all coaching, it has nothing to do with him. Um obviously it's not true. Um, but but yeah, it it's really nice when you go out there and I mean you have a lot of confidence. If you just gave a goal, that your defense is gonna get a little bit of a break. Um the goalie doesn't have to see a shot in 60 seconds after he just gave one up. Um so it got to a point at one point in the year where I was like, oh, he he lost a clamp? What? How? Uh and and I and knowing Cam, he's gonna he's gonna keep working hard and be at that level coming up. He's he's just a special talent and a really great kid.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

And he's gonna be around for a while. He's got a couple more years to go. So I think the future's bright at Anderson. Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

So it's always it's always easy to be a good lacrosse team when you have the ball like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Yeah, well, that's uh we Danny and I talk about that all the time, uh, not only on this podcast, but between the two of us, as he said, right? I mean, uh, make it and take take it, right? And that's one of the key things is uh ball possession. And if if you don't win the face off, you're relying on your defense to take care of you to get that ball back. And it's I think it's much better to start on the offensive side and and have that uh leverage than uh than being on the defensive side to begin with. But let's talk about um let's switch a little bit instead of just one individual. You talked about this a little bit and what you're trying to build and the kind of the culture that started to happen, you know, wanting to fight hard, you know. I don't know if it was a chip on the shoulder or just because they were, like you said, a lot of the 2020s coming in had lost their season, so they were ready to go. What kind of culture are you trying to build there? And what kind of student athlete are you looking for?

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Yeah, that that's a great question. Um, because it's so hard to find the right fit, right? Um, when you're trying to build that culture. Uh so yeah, our our culture, we we want our guys to work hard in every single thing they do, uh, not just lacrosse. Uh we we want to be great students, uh, we really want to be great men. Uh one thing we're we're we're fortunate enough to uh to have at our side is our faith uh behind us at Anderson. You know, it's a faith-based school. Um so we do things a little bit differently. And I think that's great that we can work on, um, even if it's not from a uh Christianity standpoint, it could be just, you know, hey, how you doing today? You know, let's talk about certain things that's going on in life. Uh, we can really work on not only you as a lacrosse barred student, but as a person a little bit more than uh some other schools who might have some restrictions on, you know, what exactly you can and can't talk about because certain certain things when you know the government gets involved or whatever, you know, the school might not want you to talk about that. Um, you know, it it hinders you a little bit. And and we're very fortunate. And and that's one of the reasons I love Anderson is that that we are able to do that and touch on that. And you know, we we say we don't hit you over the head with the Bible by any means, but uh we do want you to be a better person. And no matter what, you open up that Bible, whether you're a believer or not, you're gonna hear a good, good message, good story. Um, so that that that's been great for us too. Um, but we our culture, we call it the gold standard. Um, the gold standard is a relative term because my gold standard is different than yours. You know, if it I'm living up to the best of me I possibly can, you know, you're you guys are living up to the best you you possibly can every day. And and yeah, we're gonna fall short more times than we uh when we succeed uh or than we succeed at the gold standard. But if you're trying to live up to that every single day and that's at the front of your mind, you're gonna be a better person. So if you're trying to be the best student possible, you might be a C student, but are you fighting your butt off to get that C. Is the C really the best that you can do? If it is, good for you, man. Get that C. But let's aim for that B, you know. Um on the field, I I think that did give us a little bit of a chip on our shoulder. I also think, you know, a little bit we were uh maybe a little too naive to know any better, too. And and we fought really hard. And I hope that that just stays with us because I really hope we see how uh how much that energy and that passion, that fight, and and and we throw the word grit out there a lot, um, how much that that can add to your program too. So um when it comes to the gold standard, you know, we we want to do that on the field, we want to do that off the field, uh whether it's in the classroom or just being good people. And you know, especially 18 to 22-year-old kids are gonna make a lot of mistakes. Um, but it it it's how you respond to those. And can you learn from those uh and not make those again? And and those learning experiences really couple everything together to you know make you a better person. And at the end of the day, I I think I mentioned it earlier, you know, lacrosse is is a great tool and a great microcosm of life, you know. Um, so if you're fighting your butt off and and you you do the things that might not lead to immediate success and you have a little bit of delayed gratification, um, you're you're you're gonna get paid off in the long run. Um and for us, that's championship weekend for or maybe an all-American plaque, or you know, hey, maybe it's just you got the most out of the experience and you had a lot of fun with your teammates. But uh in life, you know, you're gonna you're gonna like where you end up if you you empty the tank. Wow, coach, that was excellent.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

I love that. Makes me want to come to Anderson.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Yeah, what's your eligibility? Yeah, what do you have any eligibility left semester? You look like you've been hitting the gym.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Uh look, maybe uh I'm an active guy. Yeah, let's say that. Um let me ask you this. Um I'm a student and I'm coming to Anderson now. What's my day gonna be like? I'm on the team, I got classes. What's my day gonna be like?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Uh yeah, that's actually great because we we talked about this in our opening meeting the other day. Um it we're we're just like everybody else. You know, we're we we go to class, you know, they take 15 hours or 18 hours, sometimes 12 hours of class. So, you know, you're in class for three or four hours a day. Uh come to practice. We we we'll practice in our 45-day segment in the fall. We'll go for about two hours a day. When we go into eight hours, we we may only practice a few times a week, and uh we really only get the guys four hours on the field. We're gonna lift four times a week. I'm a big believer in our in our weight program. Uh you got to have the explosiveness at this level. Um, you can't just be a distance runner, you can't just be a big meat head, you gotta have all of it. And uh, I think our strength program does a really great job with that too. So we spent four days a week in there for an hour, and uh and and and really that's the minimum you should be doing. Um, that that's that was a big point for us is the everyone's doing the same thing, right? Everyone has that 15 hours a week that you can get in. Everyone's spending four hours in the weight room mandatory. What are you doing off the field to separate yourself? So um, you know, our guys go to class typically, you know, no morning to early afternoon. Uh, we hope they get to the field and after they eat a little bit, get some shooting in, uh, maybe get some extra footwork or overpasses or maybe some one-on-ones, get an extra lift or whatever that may be. And then our afternoon slot, we go three to six, two hours of that practice, one hour of that lifting, and then we send the boys on their way. Uh, and and we really try to encourage all the time, you know, get get that extra work in. I uh I stole a term from Salisbury a long time ago um called edge work. You know, my coach play uh coach at Salisbury when when they started that program, um really getting it going into the national champions that they've they've been. Uh and he was a big part of that culture. And and that was a term that he gave to me, uh getting your edge, getting your edge work out in, getting something to get the edge on the opponent. And uh, and and I've used that and and I I think it's really resonated with our team. So um, Ben, you know, you're our our guys are our normal college guys. They they go back, hang with the dorm, uh, play some video games, you know, hang out with each other. They're uh they're pretty normal kids. So I know uh the lake is a popular spot for them. Clemson football is a big one. We're about 15 uh some odd miles down the road. Uh so they head over there in the fall. And um, you know, it's a it's a pretty cool, pretty cool uh little area here. We got Greenville right up the road. Um they I know they they enjoy their time spending some time on the lake or Clemson on the weekends. And um, they like being together though. I mean you see one of them, you see freaking 40 of them. It's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Is that how many you're carrying? Um, about 40.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Right now we're at 41. Yeah. Nice up. There you go. Yeah, we uh I I'm not a huge believer in the the big roster, it just doesn't fit how I do things. Um, you know, I I know a lot of programs do it and it works really well for them. Uh, and there are some programs that have really small rosters and it works really well for them. I'm somewhere in the middle. Um, right. We'll probably have to be above 50 at some point when it comes to you know having this 2020 class on campus. And we've got 22 2020s, uh, and I don't see a whole lot of them leaving right now. And uh just with that, if we want to continue to have a healthy roster after they leave, we have to recruit pretty normal sized classes. So we'll probably have a bigger roster in 23 and 24, but after that, we'll we'll try to stay, you know, right around that 50 area.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yes, so this let's switch again just for another thing. Um, I'm curious your insight. You know, you played at the D3 level, you were assistant coach at Division I level, you were assistant coach at Division II level, now you're a head coach at Division II. So you've been at all three different levels, and like we talk about, you know, we Danny and I preach this all the time of where we think the competition and the level of lacrosse is um for division two. I just want to hear what you think about division two versus the other ones and and and where you think it's going.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah, that that's uh that's a another great question. Uh, because division two lacrosse has uh not that it was ever bad lacrosse by any means, but the level of competition just in the last 10, 15, maybe even five years has just gone so far. Uh a lot of that has to do with uh our ability to stack scholarships. Uh, and I know you guys have talked about that in previous podcasts because that's a relatively new uh legislation that came through that we we can stack athletic and academic scholarships, and that makes things really, really affordable, you know, especially where a lot of lacrosse schools are in the northeast. Um, tuitions are upwards of you know $70,000, $80,000 a year. And I know no one's really paying that much money, but still you take away 50% of that, you're still paying $35,000. So um it makes things for us a little bit easier in a recruiting process where we could say, hey, you're you're paying under $10 to come here. Whereas you know, you want to go play a division one school, it may be $30,000 or $40,000 for you. Um, so that has just been great for us. I think also division two migrating to the south and and even going out west with with some of the the schools out in Utah and Colorado. There's such an accessibility for Division II lacrosse, too. And and the sport is growing too. I mean, if you had told me when I was in high school that uh Georgia lacrosse would be just as good as Massachusetts lacrosse, I would tell you you're out of your freaking mind. But I mean, we go to Atlanta with two hours down the road from us, and I mean there are some studs down there, and they're born. Yeah, it it's crazy. So um I I think the competition relatively, you know, obviously division one is gonna have you know your your your top level guys. I mean, I I think we can all admit that.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Um we call them blue chippers, the blue chippers, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah, you're you're four and five stars, you know. Yeah, the blue chip guys, and uh, you know, we're we're we're you may see a couple of those sneaking in division two every now and then. I think one of the guys we just talked about is is one of those guys that snuck on a roster that um he just thought it was a better fit. Uh and you know, we've got some really great schools in in division two, and um it's just rise up to that level now where I think that has made it even more competitive. Where I think 10 years ago you would have had an argument that division three is better than division two. Um, but just because there was only like 30-something teams in division two, too. Right. Um, and it was really a regional division up in the northeast than anything, and uh now it's just spread so much, it's so much more accessibility. Um, man, it it the if you're looking for a great lacrosse experience, no matter what, division one, two, or three, you can't miss. It's all about just finding the right fit for you. But no matter where you go, you're gonna play great lacrosse. It's it's not like you're going to the peewee division when you go to division two or division three. You know, it's right, it's intense. It and and and these guys care a lot about it, too. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah, that's I I really appreciate hearing that and uh just getting your insight on that. And and I agree, right? Division one is still going to be the top, however, I do think there's a lot of division two teams that can play and compete against some of the lower level division one teams. I think that's where Division II is right now. Um so uh my lot.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

We saw we saw Merrimack go up to the Division I level. Uh Merrimack, they were top, top-notch division two for many, many years. Uh they went up to Division I that that first year was kind of uh uh you know, they're they're they're playing a little bit different level of lacrosse. Uh but at the start of last year, they started to come around a little bit, they did much better, you know. So there's a division two school that went division one and they're doing okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Oh, yeah. It's um that I mean that's a perfect example of it, you know, and that's it's kind of like what we talked about earlier, where you're just not used to playing all of those teams at that level. But once you once you start to play at that level, you start to you know understand how it works and and your competition just raises within the team itself, you know, you're you're gonna be at that level eventually. But there is so much talent at this level. I mean, you take any of the top 10, 15 schools in division two, you know, they may not win every game that they play against a division one team. And I hate to say lower level division one because I've coached uh at that level, and uh I'll tell you there's no easy wins uh for sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

And I know that that's not what you mean, but it's still division one, you know, it's still division one, and they're six two, they're two twenty. Lower level, I apologize.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

May I go? Oh no, no, that's not that was the wrong phrase. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

No, I I know what you meant. I think everyone, everyone listening knows, but it's just there there really is no low level, right? And no, and you get those division two programs who are at the highest level of division two, and they play against those teams that are considered your lower lower level division one. There's not a whole lot of difference there. Now, you know, the there the level of coaching as far as how much we can have those guys with us is is different. Um, you know, it maybe the the weight training and the um the resources that you have is a little bit different in division one or uh field time, uh class schedules too. People won't talk about that. Smaller division two schools offer less classes, so you got to have practice at a certain time. Um, whereas division one schools that have 20,000 people that go there, you know, there are classes offered all throughout the day. Um, so you can you can make your class schedules well enough to be able to get everybody at the right time or at a good time where you're not cutting your practice short because uh you know the women's lacrosse team's coming on or soccer's gotta come on or whatever it is. So there's a whole bunch of factors that make division one, you know, a different level, but it's certainly not the overall talent. The the talent in division two is is right there. And I think if you stack up the athletes like we you guys were getting at, there's not a big separation at all. Um and and certainly, I mean, you put Le Moyne against a lot of teams, they're they're gonna beat some of them, or at least uh at least at least goes toe to toe with them. So it's uh it's impressive.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Le Moyne is an impressive team.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

And Coach Sheehan, man, he he's a machine, he's got those guys going every single year. Um he he's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

It's amazing to watch. So uh last question. Um, and I give it to you, you know, because not only did we want to showcase D2 lacrosse, but we brought you on here. Uh what we've seen from Anderson uh, you know, last year, you know, just raised, I think you guys raised the bar in a lot of ways. Um in the fact of how you started as a as a first year program, um, was just amazing. So what would you like our listeners and potentially even recruits know more about Anderson? Anything else that you haven't talked about yet that you'd like to impart on on the on the crowd?

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Um we we have talked about a lot, uh, which you guys are good at your job, man. Uh but I and I really appreciate the the kind words. And um, you know, I hope we can not that we were world beaters by any any means this past year. I mean, we we we were four and ten, a lot lost nine in a row, and uh, you know, not to take us down to peg or anything, but I uh we we still got a lot of work to do, but I think we have a great foundation and and I'm really excited uh about that. But um, you know, the school itself, if if I want to give my my elevator pitch, I mean uh our president and and our athletic director just have an incredible vision uh of where they want to bring this university. And um they've really uh they really bumped us up to where you know Anderson was a small uh a small Christian school that was really just South Carolina kids that wanted to come here, maybe sneak in a couple of Georgia guys from you know just over the border. But now it's really becoming a regional power. Uh and we're starting to get into the national side of things when it comes to um not only just recruiting with other student athletes, but all over the country. Um kids want a great education. We offer that. Uh, we have a lot of different degrees. Uh, like I said, we are faith-based. So if you're looking for a Christian university, this is the best place for you. Um, if you're not into that, we're we're still a great option. We have everything else that uh could be you know possibly wanted by by a uh 18 to 22-year-old uh male or female. It doesn't matter. But uh we're we're building a lot, we're really excited. I I can't wait to see where this program goes. We got a lot of other really great players that we we didn't talk about today, just name a few Isaiah Hines, uh Garrett Hawkins, Bo Henson, Riley Zopfi, um, a lot, Mason Gore, a lot. I and I'm leaving guys off and I and I know that um and they're gonna bust my chest. I'll tell you, they'll let you know, coach. They'll let you know. They will, trust me. Uh I've already heard it once. Um, but they they're just a special, special group of kids. They they fight their butts off every single day, and um, it really is a pleasure coaching them. And and I'm excited to see this 21 class come in and um and see what they can do. But our coaching staff, I I couldn't be uh happier. They make my job very easily. Uh I don't have to worry about a lot of the stuff on the field. Um, you know, I'm the supervisor uh really on the field and they they coach. Uh I listen and watch. And you know, when I like things to be done a certain way, they they do it that way. Um and you know, Matt Ladon is he's a great young coach, really cutting his teeth at this level. And uh, you know, his next job, I would be shocked if it wasn't a head coaching job. And um, you know, Coach Valenza, our graduate assistant, does a great job at our goalies. Uh Coach Mez is a uh a legend, uh, you know, three-time Hall of Famer, uh three-time All-American Hall of Fame defenseman at Towson. Um, we're work with Hartford Community College, started their program up and has a great uh coaching resume. He has more plaques and awards than than anyone I've ever seen. And we got so lucky with him just retiring on the lake and uh happened to call me up one day and wanted to talk some shop because he was bored. And uh now he's the best volunteer in the country, as I say. So that's fantastic. It's awesome, it's awesome. And and and you know, he he's he's Long Island through and through, and and Frank Mezzanati, you know, I love him, and he's the man. Um, so we uh we just got a lot of really good things going and and I'm excited. We we still got to work really hard. And uh, you know, it you guys make it tough when you talk about us like that to keep my players hungry, but we uh we we definitely I think we got a great core, and and our core is our players, and our our players are really the ones that that own this program, and I just manage it. Um it's it's tough managing them sometimes, but but it's fun. Every day coming to work is awesome, and um just being around those kids. I mean, man, we're it's it's August now, and getting the kids back on campus, it's just I mean, it just is is so much more fun, and uh it makes my day just amazing. So it's not work for me. So it's awesome, and and the university has given us um really everything we need to succeed. So we're we're excited. And that's not me uh trying to give my my AD and president a shout out. Maybe I get a raise or something, but I'm being true in there. It's working, you gotta work it, coach.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

You gotta work on 24-7. Hey, so we we really, really appreciate you coming on. It's it's been a lot of fun. Uh, you know, uh I don't know if anyone else really likes it, but every time Danny and I do this, we have more fun and are more excited for the next show afterwards. And you really helped us out tonight and uh really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

You know, coach, when when when um Kevin and I were discussing, hey, uh let's try to get some coaches on. Uh you were the first guy that I thought of. Uh I said, I'd love uh to talk to the coach of Anderson because just what you've done. And just it was just impressive uh to me uh to see you coming out of the gate in such a difficult and and uh big conference in division two. There's a lot of big dogs in the SAC. And and you you did well, coach. And uh and I was so happy that you came on and and decided to come on with us. I really, I really am. And it was it was great talking with you tonight.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Uh I I really appreciate that, guys. And um, you know, I don't do it for any type of uh uh praise or anything like that, but hearing that, you know, it it just makes me feel good that we're at least moving in the right direction, that people can notice that. But um credit to you guys, man. That this podcast is awesome. When when when Kevin reached out to me, I listened to I think at least five episodes of it, and you guys are doing an awesome job. Yeah, the uh the conference roundup, that was that was a great one going down all the lists, and you you had some uh some just spectacular programs mentioned in that one. And it's uh man, it it it's uh you guys are doing an awesome job for the sport and and just our division, maybe something that's not as talked about as it should be, uh giving these kids some recognition and and and and all the hard work they're putting in. It's it's nice to hear them get uh more praise than they do because they uh they they deserve it. So um credit to you guys, man. This is awesome. I love what you guys are doing. Well, thanks, coach coach. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

And and that leads up to great segue, coach. You're it great segue because as a teaser, I thought I'd just talk a little bit about upcoming podcast episodes. So in future episodes, we're gonna have the coach of St. Leo's on, we're gonna have Mercyhurst coach on, we're gonna have the coach from Wilmington on. What we're trying to do is get at least one coach from each conference on for the beginning of this season. And then what we'd love to be able to do, and coach, if you got time during the season next year for a five-minute talk during the season, we would love to have you back on. That's kind of where we want to go with this show. So, anyone listening out there, if your team or your conference isn't representative from what you I just said right now, help us spread the word. Get the word out. We'd love to. I've I've contacted several coaches from each of the conferences. I know they're busy. It's nothing against them. But if you've got a coach that you want to get them to listen to the podcast and try to reach out to us uh on, you know, my I don't even want to say my just try to get to us and and we'll go from there. But that's what we want. Any last words, Danny?

SPEAKER_02 44:58

No, it was just a great night. I was I'm so glad Coach Mitchell came on with us and I wish Anderson all the best uh in this season coming up. And uh, I'm gonna be watching. I'll be watching. Awesome. Thank you, guys.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Yeah, so that's a wrap now. So we'll see you next time on In the Creeks.