Lacrosse Legend Tom Mariano on Building Winning Programs

Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of In the Crease with Danny and Kevin, a coast-to-coast discussion of D Two Men's Lacrosse. I'm your co-host, Kevin Stenstrom, and with me as always is the Dale Carnegie of D2 Lacrosse, Danny Moran. The Dale Carnegie.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

You're a trip, Kevin. You are a funny guy.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

You know how to w win friends and influence people. That's all I'm gonna say, Danny. Oh no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

I I chase people away a lot mostly. I'm a people person, Kev. You know that. I'm a social guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

You are, you are. You could talk to almost anyone. You're very, very good at it. You should be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

You should keep the street pole. You should ask the street pole down the block. I talk to that too.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

And he probably you probably want him over as a friend, too. He likes me, the street pole. Look at I'm pumped. Fallball has started. Schedules are out. I'm starting to see videos of fallball practices going on and trying to repost those for the teams. It really gets my latch juice uh juices flowing there, Danny.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Yeah, I'm excited for the season. A lot of changes coming up, some new coachings, changes, and uh a lot of stuff going on. A lot of like we talked about last uh podcast, a lot of players that were superstars last year have moved on, and some of these teams are gonna take on new looks and some new coaches. Yeah, and uh one of the coaches that's with us tonight, yeah, his team's gonna have a new coach.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

So yeah, that I'm I'm pumped for this guest tonight, Danny. Me too. He's one of he's one of my favorites, actually. Yeah, we brought him on as a guest. He was one of our first D2 coaches we talked with, and I think he was the very first from the NE10. But like you just said, Danny, he has now moved on from coaching from D2. He's moved from that perch to take on a new challenge. But I'm excited to hear what he's doing, how that's going, and also reflect on his years as the setters head

Tom Mariano

SPEAKER_00 2:38

coach. Let's bring him in, man. Let's bring him in, Tom Mariano, athletic director and head boys lacrosse coach at the Perky Omen School.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

Well, excellent. Did I get that right, Coach? You got it. You got it. Way better than before. Way better than before.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

What people don't know is that we spent about 15 minutes right now, you coaching me on how to say the school's name.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Uh no, I appreciate you guys having me on. It's always fun to get on with you guys. You guys are a tremendous asset. You know, I think anytime anybody is spreading positive vibes and positive goodwill for the game of lacrosse, and certainly for Division II Lacrosse, it's welcomed by, as you know, many in our community. And it's been awesome watching you guys kind of progress and get developed and just, you know, I think, you know, play an important role in Division II Lacrosse. I really think you guys do. I don't think, you know, I don't know if you guys take enough credit or get enough credit, but I think you guys, you know, to me, you're like one of the biggest resources in D2 Lacrosse. So it's, you know, it's awesome for our players and coaches that are that are a part of Division II Lacrosse.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Thank you so much for that, Coach. I really appreciate it. I didn't think anybody listened. No, we really appreciate that. It's been fun doing the podcast and getting, you know, fine gentlemen like yourself come on and talk about lacrosse, the history of lacrosse, and the future of lacrosse in division two. And I'll tell you, coach, we're gonna miss you in division two. We are gonna miss you. I felt that you were one of the standout coaches in Division II. I felt that, you know, the pace setters was one of those programs that you want to go to. Uh, again, my sister went to pace. I know what pace brings to the table for young ladies and young gentlemen. And just what you did there was nothing short of remarkable. And Division II is certainly gonna miss you.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, everybody everything runs its course. You know, I think uh I look back in the days of you know, the Jack Cayley and Tommy Postel, Sandy Cappados, you know, Jim Fritz, what he did down at Pfeiffer. I mean the list goes on. And I think, you know, I don't know if I thought this as a younger coach, but as you become a more experienced coach, I'll use that term. Um I think it's important that you give back, that you, you know, you you take some ownership and you you have some pride, and not just your team, right? We're all coaches, we're all gonna have pride. You know, we're paid by our institutions to do a job and help our players and to do all the stuff that goes with being a college lacrosse coach. But I think it's really important that, you know, each of our coaches, well, in you know, whatever division you're in, but obviously we're talking division two, but all of our division two coaches to have pride in their program, to have pride in their league, to have pride in their region, and then to have pride in division two lacrosse. And that could be a supporting role, that could be a leading role, that could be a behind-the-scenes role, but uh, you know, too many coaches put their head in the sand and say, well, I'm a lacrosse coach and that's what I'm gonna do. And it's like, well, you're more than that. And can you impact the game a little bit more? Can you help it a little bit? And you know, these meetings aren't always great. You know, some of the behind-the-scenes stuff are not always great, but honestly, it's more laughs and positive than negative. And at the end of the day, it's about the player experience and build it for these players. So that's I've always felt that way. Um as I've become a more veteran coach, a more seasoned coach. I didn't feel that way as a younger coach, and I implore all the younger coaches I interact with, like, get involved. Get involved.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah.

unknown 6:13

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Be the league rep.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah, I those are great comments, coach. I will tell you this, and one of the reasons I want to have you on, you have really set the bar a lot of ways in in what I think, and what I think you want to have as a coach. And that's not from wins and losses, that's from what you do on the field and off the field, how you treat other people, especially and what you do for the community. And I know there are a lot of coaches like you out there, but I wanted to say that now. That's kind of another reason why I really wanted to have you on, even as you were making this transition when I found out this summer, because of what I think what you've met, just what you said, giving back within D2 is why I want to have you on. But let's talk about this really quickly. Tell us about the school and why you decided to make this move.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Well, I think, you know, it's I think, you know, it's like anything else, whether it's a relationship or a job, you know, I think sometimes things happen when you're not looking for it. Um, you know, I think, you know, we had a lot of success at pace and, you know, supportive administration, you know, quality coaching staff, tremendous players, great families, like people all in, you know, really supportive. And we had deficiencies. We don't have, you know, didn't nearly have as much scholarship money as anybody else, which people don't realize, didn't have a huge operating budget, but like we just found a way because we built it on the experience. And I think, you know, because of that success, like over the years, I've interviewed for different jobs and I've been offered different jobs, and you know, I've turned down other level jobs, which quote unquote are supposed to be better. Um, because I just love the pace experience and I love being there, and it was perfect for my family. And my daughter went through the women's lacrosse program, and it was just everything was right for us. And I think I spent the summer, you know, and did some interviews with some high-profile jobs, and you know, it's kind of like those are what they are, and you go through that. And it's like the end of the day, like I really enjoyed my time at pace. And then kind of out of nowhere, this opportunity kind of popped up and it happened really fast. And I just, you know, there was some personal reasons in terms of you know having gone to school here. And, you know, I've always been a you know, at Sacred Heart, I became an assistant A D. I didn't get extra money. I got more work, you know, and I did that because I enjoyed that part of it. Same thing at pace. You know, I became an assistant AD, and it wasn't because I was getting this huge pay raise. It was like I've always really enjoyed the administrative part of the job. Um, you know, I feel like I've always tried to be as organized as possible. And I've always kind of looked at like, man, I'd really like to be an athletic director. I'd really like my shot because it's easy to critique all my bosses and ADs and be like, well, I could do this better, I could do that better. You know, and I kind of got the chance to put my, you know, put my mouth on the line and back it up. And it was just something, and you know, to be honest, for 32 years as a division one and two head coach, I probably always put the job first. So I felt like maybe this one time I'll put my family first.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Yeah, well that perfectly makes sense. I think you do put your family first, though. I see your Instagrams, I see what a family man you are, and yeah, it's quite impressive, coach.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

It is, but I think you know, people don't realize the weddings that we miss, yeah, the birthday parties, the you know, and you know, and everybody's like, oh, you know, don't miss your kids' stuff. And I always hear that from like major college football coaches who have a staff of 50 people.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

You know, we don't have that in lacrosse. And you try, you don't want to miss anything. You want to go to all your kids' events, but sometimes it just doesn't. You know, no one's flying me on a helicopter after a game to watch my kids play a sport. Right. Right. Right, right. And I would be terrified of a helicopter anyways, but it's you know, so I think you end up missing a lot. And it, you know, it, you know, you love the experience, you love what you're doing, but you you know, it's a lot. It is a lot to be a college lacrosse coach. It's a any of our professions. It's a lot to do what you do. We're a lot of hats, man.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

A lot of hats.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

College lacrosse at the division two level. You're I ran the social media, I ran the fundraising, I you know, I helped, uh I ran the recruiting, you're running the coaching, the organization, the academics, the discipline, the the you know, the social media in it of itself, like there's just so many hats that you're wearing. There's not enough time in the day.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

No, you're right. You're right.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

And now I say all that, and I'm an athletic director, and I'm probably working more hours than I ever did. You know, we just finished the volleyball match, right? Or a volleyball match is still going on at campus, and you know, but it's from uh from my perspective, a professional perspective, you it's you're interacting with all the athletes, not just the players.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Yeah. How special is it to return to your alma mater?

SPEAKER_03 11:34

It it it's it it's great. You know, I think what's more special is that there's people who still work here that were here when I was here. Wow. Wow. And that's that's a bit. I mean, you know, I've getting a lot of you know, from the people who's like, hey, do you remember this? And I'm like, no, that was a long time ago. Um, I forgot what I had for breakfast this morning. But I I the people have been very accommodating. The kids have been accommodating. The kids have been great. You know, I just it's a you know, I think anybody who either go from the college, and let's face it, a lot of college is close-knit and connected, but there's also you operate in silos. You know, you might have your basketball coaches who work up here, your football coaches, like everybody's in their own little silo.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

At this kind of boarding school, private school environment, we're all in this together. You're having meals together, you're, you know, I eat on campus, lunch and dinner, breakfast people wanted. Like you are, it's 24-7. You're you're fully immersed in it. Um, and it's great. It's a different experience. It's certainly, you know, I'm still getting used to it, but it it's also pretty awesome. So it's it's been a fun experience for me. And listen, there's not a day that goes by that I don't regret, you know, coaching pace and my experience there. Like I definitely miss it. I'm always gonna miss it. But I think, you know, there's an expiration date and everything. And I think you're either getting thrown out the door or you're walking out the door. Right, right. Well, let's talk about that for a second, Coach.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Yeah, I mean, you coach Pace for 13 seasons, compiled a 123 and 66 record. Always had your team ranked near or in the top 10. Tell us about building that, developing that consistency at pace, and then how that translates to what you're trying to do as an athletic director.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Well, I think it starts with you know, creating an environment that you know is about everything, you know, the on field, the off-field, you know, we kind of called it the PSP, you know, who these guys were as a person, student, and player. Um, because that, you know, pace. When I got there, you know, the program was struggling. Facilities were horrendous, but the academics were good. Yeah. And the internships are good. And you could get a good job. So I felt like for the first time in my career, I was at a juncture where like I didn't have to sell the academics. I didn't have to beg kids to look at the school. Now I had to beg them to believe me, like, hey, we're gonna have a good field, we're gonna have a good team. Right. I mean, our first recruiting class went to the NCAA tournament their junior year.

unknown 14:20

Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

You know, so I think that that, you know, it really comes down to recruiting, recruiting, development, retention culture. You know, and I think we, you know, early on, we, you know, had a wide net, and we, you know, we hit home runs, we hit singles, and we struck out on some kids. And that's part of the process. But as you got into it and you you developed the program and you develop a standard and expectation, we just believe like we're gonna recruit a pace kid. And I think we did a really good job of that. And then all of a sudden, you know, and you guys have had the names, and you just list the names of like high achieving men who crushed it both academically and athletically. And you're kind of like, okay, if you want a defenseman, you're gonna be, you know, you gotta be like Dan Lewis. If you're gonna be midi, you want to be Anthony Caputo, you know, or Brad Patterson, or Lou Ragusa, or Bobby. Like you could just go down the list. Um, you know, Dan Xabia, like go down the list. Look, there's and I'm not naming those names. There, there's more names I could name.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

And you, you know, you put those images up in your head as a coach. Well, I need to recruit kids like these kids, Raphael Rodriguez. Like, I could just I could go on and on with names, just wonderful kids to coach and watch them become men. But I think it just became uh in our locker room, it was a standard. You know, you're a freshman and these were the seniors. They had three, eight GPAs, they were all Americans, they got good jobs, they were good people, they were fun to be around. And it all just kind of connected. And I think that, you know, as you go off in life and you start to look at other things, well, it's like, shouldn't that be how it should be in everything? You know, chase excellence in all areas, chase excellence in what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Yeah, young men saving lives before practice a couple of years ago. I know.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

I mean, that was a wild story. And it's just there's so many, you know, we we've got guys who didn't start a game who became lawyers.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

He said to us, he showed up at practice and you said to him, So, how was your day?

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Oh no, we had a game. Yeah, was it a game? At the end of the game, I'm like, all right, we're gonna give Kieran Hagen a game ball. And he played well that game, but like, we're gonna give Kieran a game ball, played pretty well, but like he saved somebody's life, and like the team was like, What?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

That was a great story. It was great to have him on, too. It was funny.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

So I think you know, I always looked at it as like, you know, my job was to honor those kids. You know, so recruiting, like I had to find good kids, I had to find kids who could help them be successful in the locker room, in the dorms, in life, in on the field. You just felt like you were letting those kids down in recruiting if you didn't bring in similar type kids.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Oh, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

So it just kind of kept spinning and spinning, and we, you know, did listen, we, you know, thankfully we didn't lose many games. We lost some games, but like we weren't gonna compromise who we were uh as a program and an institution. And I I look at the success we had, and uh, you know, listen, the wins and losses, whatever. But just the the type of men that left the program, you know, to me that was that has been the experience of the team together.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Yeah. So let me ask you this, coach. Uh interestingly, you said you cast a wide net when you started off that didn't have that great of a team, you know, terrible facilities. So you cast a wide net in recruiting. As you went through the years, did that net naturally become smaller? Because now kids are seeing pace lacrosse players, they now are almost driven to want to go to the school, and now you had a better opportunity to choose the right one that fit your your collection.

SPEAKER_03 18:21

You know, recruiting, right? You spend 85% of your time chasing kids who never play for you. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of times some of the best kids you ever get, you know, were the easiest to recruit. Right. Um, you know, and I tell a story all the time. Anthony Caputo. I went to a fundraiser for Michael Pageri, who's a young man who was killed while he was at Pace in a car crash. Just a wonderful family. Um, you know, every year somebody wears number 18, you know, Matt Metzgerb is another, you know, senior this year who'll wear 18 who will represent Michael well. And just I look at the guys of worn 18, and you could just, in my opinion, you could just take every kid who's worn 18 in the pace program since I've been there. And if you recruit kids like them, you're gonna be great. But I went to a fundraiser, do a great job at Long Island. Um, I happen to be going out the door and I see like Mike Winkoff. He's like, hey coach, how you doing? He was like, You got any spots left? I'm like, Yeah, who you got? And he's like, I got a guy for you. And he like called me like Monday, we had Anthony Visit, enjoyed it, you know, into the you know, three-time All-American midi of the year. It was amazing. And just one of us like walking out the door at a fundraiser, which to me, I think, you know, is a the you know, a great pace lacrosse story. I think it kind of signifies, you know, who we were and who we've been, and you know, kind of how we wanted to do things. You know, just you know, happened to be at the right place at the right time and took advantage of an experience on both ends. And I think it, you know, I think, you know, it worked out well for everybody. 100%. 100%. Except when his his cousin, who also Christopher, ended up being an all-American too, because Anthony felt he had to leave us to go play Division I for his fifth year. Right. There's a tech sent once every three months. Anthony was not invited to Christmas anymore. Christopher could do that. But some people might there's some people might say, like at 23, we felt if Anthony were to come back, we would have won a national championship. Because we had Ryan Kemp, we had Raz. Oh, yeah, we had dudes.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Absolutely. Anthony would have been unstoppable. Yeah, yeah. But that's also part of our program, right? He put the time in to us and he wanted to explore an opportunity. You know, still talk to him all the time. Like he just uh, you know, is a great player, um, great person, a lot of fun. You know, we missed him, but at the same time, other guys stepped up, and that's what the program was always about. And that's, you know, the day I left, that's something that I preached. Like, you know, it's gonna be a good coach here. You guys are good players, you're gonna be fine, you're gonna still win.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Yeah, you'll be fine. Absolutely, absolutely. I agree. This past season, coach, you surpassed Dan Mulholland as the winningest coach in program history. One, how does that feel? But really, I want to know, because I know you talk about it, I see it in your uh social posts a lot. Tell us what Dan Mulholland meant to you and the pace program.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

I mean, he they call him the dog father for a reason. Like he, you know, I think it's interesting. If you talk to my alums, you talk to his alums, like every one of his alums, like somehow a beer is you know, is worded into a story, which is something we joke about. I mean, Mo Molly just had this presence. He had a way to talk to you, you know, talk criminal justice for decades. He just he just knew how to, you know, interact with people. And I think that, you know, when I kind of went through this process, a lot of the alums and one of the alums who you know have a relationship with say, Hey, would you be interested to have Coach Mulholland back. And I was like, absolutely. You know, I've been around Coach Mully since I was 18 years old. Um, always have had the greatest respect for him. He was great to have around, just a sounding board. And I think his attitude was like, uh, you're good in lacrosse. He goes, um and he would just coach what he needed to coach, but he coached the kids, and that's something he always did. He coached the kids. Um, I'll be honest, if it were up to me, I would have left before I broke the record. That's just that's just me. Right. I actually didn't even know. Well, I figured that because you would have like left, you know, exit stage right. I if it if it could have worked out in like a dream scenario, yeah, you know, either tied with them or you know, one less than him, I would have been fine with that.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Um, but I also know he's up there, you know, smiling and happy. So I think it's, you know, he like I said, he's called the dog father for a reason. Just a tremendous human being.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

I love it. I love it. Now though, you're coaching high school after 30 some years in the college coaching ranks. How different is that for you now? Is that is it really different? What are the what are you seeing and what excites you about it?

SPEAKER_03 23:16

I mean, it it it listen, lacrosse is lacrosse, right? It's a ball, it's a stick. Um, you know, we have some high-level players here, we have some quality players here. I've always said I have such respect for high school guys, like what they deal with and the environments they're in, and they're teaching all day, and they're running the practice, and they're I mean, just impressive. I've always been impressed. And some, you know, and we can name the high school programs. I mean, these guys are as good as anybody. Um it's the same, but it's completely different. You know, and let's face it, I've spent my whole career around kids this age, but it was more from a recruiting perspective, right? Club stuff or tournaments. Right. Um so it's just getting used to them. Them getting used to me, you know, kind of us meeting in the middle. I think that's important.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Um, but you know, whether you're coaching in Korea, uh, coaching college kids, pro kids, high school kids, youth, you want to be around people who love the game, who have a passion for it. And I think that, you know, certainly at the prep school environment, you can influence your roster a little bit more than a public school environment. Yeah. Right. Um, you know, so it's the same, but it's completely different. You know, deal with different things. And I think that, you know, also too, you know, me wearing the AD hat, like we, you know, and we we practice in the fall. We've been practicing, we practice today. We practice Monday through Friday. We live four days a week. Like it's great. These guys get after it. Wow. But like one day I go out to practice and I'm doing like a drill, and I'm like, hey, uh, tell the assistants like, take over, I'll be right back. And I walk into the athletic center, and like some young girl from the other team's like, uh, excuse me, the bathroom is flooding. I don't know what to do. So I'm like, uh, hold on. So I go in the bathroom and the toilet's flooded, it's everywhere. Needless to say, I didn't get to practice for a little bit. So I think for me, the AD role, you know, like I've had to, you know, one day, you know, one of our teachers was sick and he needed somebody to cover his arts program after school. So I went and covered the arts program and didn't go to practice and let the assistants cover it, which is good for them. Right. You know, it's good for everybody. It's you know, it's part of like my perspective of being engaged with everybody. Right. But yeah, high school, it's it's still across, but it's completely different. You're dealing with younger version. And you're, you know, the thing that I do miss, you know, college, we just had so many guys. Your interaction is great. The environment, just the right, you know, you're constantly talking to people, texts and phone calls, and meetings. There's there's people everywhere. Right. You know, high school, it's dealing with a lot less rosters. You know, we we can't practice, we can't do the same drills that we did when I was at Pace. You know, we had a 50-man roster for the last you know, right, 10 years, right? Um, allowed us the ability to practice a certain way and full speed, you know, flying around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do it in much smaller segments at the high school level with a lot less kids. Still doing it, but just smaller and short bursts. Understood. Understood.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah, so I have to ask this my last question I've got for you, coach. When you were a young lad at Perky Omen, did you ever think you'd be in this position?

SPEAKER_03 26:34

No. I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure I'd get invited back to campus. You know, when I when I got it, I got into the Hall of Fame here, I think in 06, uh, you know, part of I talked about, I think, you know, for me, doing a PG year probably helped me get through college. Like I'm not sure if I'd have gone to college out of high school that I would have lasted. I think I would have probably joined a union and got out of college. I think it gave me a year to kind of grow up and mature. And not that I was that mature when I went to college, but I was more mature than coming out of high school. I wasn't ready, I wasn't prepared. Um so it it certainly helped me, but it's been, you know, I think a lot of people refer to as full circle. And I think when I take a step back, I'm like, yeah, it definitely is kind of full circle. Um But I think, you know, the other thing too, it's right, like it's also another lesson in like be smart in your relationships. Be smart in your relationships know where this is gonna go. Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Burn those bridges along the way, right?

SPEAKER_03 27:40

I've tried to keep relationships active since I've been gone.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

That's awesome. I I had to ask that question. I I think I knew the answer, Coach, because if I look back at what I thought I was gonna do after high school, it was not what I'm doing now. It really didn't even have the military in it, and I spent 23 years in the Navy, so you just never know, like you said, what happens, and I love your your last comment about uh, you know, you know, keeping relationships open. Not with the other way to say it is don't burn any bridges, right? Don't try to burn any bridges. But I think the relationship part is even more important, which is really great. I I want to tell you, like we said at the beginning of this episode, I really, really, really want I I texted you right after I or messaged you right after I found out you you took the job and asked if you'd be willing to come on because I think you have had that kind of impact on Division II Lacrosse, at least in my eyes, and what from what Danny and I have done, and certainly of how you've as sport supported us in the podcast, which you know that plus 25 cents won't get you a cup of coffee, coach. But we do know how much that I I've seen you've had an impact on on D2 Lacrosse, and I'm sure you'll do the same thing at that school there.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

No, I appreciate it. And you know, that was probably I think in your, you know, it's hard to make that decision. It's hard to kind of like leave. And then when you start telling people, and then you know, the text, the phone calls, it it was it was overwhelming, you know. I think that you tried to talk to everybody, you weren't able to talk to everybody. I think that you know, I know some people's feelings were hurt and upset, and it was it was nothing but love. I just honestly like I honestly shut down and was overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Wow. Well, you know what, coach, you left your mark. You know, you you've you've coached hundreds of young men, and you know, and and again, the program has been phenomenal. Phenomenal. I just think it's one of the best programs in the country, hands down. And again, I know pace, been to pace, I know what it's like, I know the kind of jobs that these young men and women get coming out of pace. And then and then you got the Korea thing, your your coaching Korea, you're on 14, 18 hour trips and posting all the food and stuff. I get a kick out of it. I was like, Coach Mariana's the man. So you know, and then you come back from Korea and then you're on the field with your son on tournament day. And then you you know, you're just it's very impressive, Coach. I've been very impressed.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

I don't know, right? They say you you live or you die. You know, like you know, someday we're not gonna wake up. So I might as well try to get in everything I can now and try to do and impact. And you know, listen, at the end of the day, right? It's a passion and a love for the game. Like, I don't care. You know, put me in front of third graders, put me in front of the best players in the world. Like, I'm gonna coach. And not everybody likes that.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

That's okay, yeah. Yeah, you know, how to get you to come on as a guest analyst this year. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 30:47

I would love to do that.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Um awesome. We're doing it.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

You know, I think it's I think I've always looked at it and I've always gotten uh, you know, you know, like the take from players like, well, you know, you either love or hate coach. And I'm like, okay, if you hate me, that's on you. But like the end of the day, all I want for you is to be great in every area. Right. I don't know why you wouldn't want that. And that's what I I struggled with some players. Like, I'm here to help you. I'm doing everything I can to help you. And you have issues with me because I'm busting your chops, because you didn't get to class, because you're not lifting hard enough, because you don't, you're not reaching your full potential. I see more in you. Yeah, like I'll never apologize for seeing more in a young man. I'll never apologize. You know, some kids sometimes you have to push kids. Right. Sometimes they don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

That's right. I was just gonna say some kids are driven, some kids need to be pushed.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

I think if you talk to the Danny Lewis as the Anthony Caputo, they'll tell you the early years were hard. Yeah. Because I saw the greatness. I told Dan Lewis, if you come the pace, you'll leave as a defenseman of the year. But you're gonna have to work. And he didn't want to work when he was with the Philly. No, he worked, but he didn't want to work. By the time he left, I wasn't coaching him, he was coaching the team.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Like, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

He understood it. You know, and I think that you know, all a lot of these players.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

And I I think it would be interesting, coach, to talk to a lot of those players who's who are on the hate side, you know, get them ten years later. Right. And have them look back at what they think now and what they you instilled in them and how they carry out their lives, I think it would be a different story.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Well, I think unfortunately, and because I've done this long enough, there's always going to be a small percentage. You know, they play the blame game. Don't blame me because your career didn't turn out the way you thought it would. Like I I did everything to support you. You know, I know there's players, oh, you know, coach screwed me. I I I had no personal agenda. I'm not trying to screw anybody. Yeah, I never have. I wanted the best for each player, but at the same time, I want the best for the program. And listen, sometimes if you put a coach in a tough position, he's got to make a tough decision. I've never liked that. I've never liked playing time. I never have. I've never been comfortable deciding Kevin's better than Dan. I want Dan to go kick Kevin's butt and tell me, you know, like, and that's what I challenge both of you to do, you know. Right. Go win the job. Go earn the job.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

It's not me giving you the job. I didn't make you an all-American. I may have helped you get there, but the ultimate work, or I didn't make you a backup. You you chose, and then, but they're also, I will preface, there are some kids who just were in a situation, they were behind dudes. They were behind all American after all American. Right. But those aren't the kids who have an issue with me or or my coaching. They never did. Those are actually some of the kids I'm the closest with because they know the moment I could play them, I threw them out there. Right. I didn't treat him any different. I talked to them the same. Like you're fair to everybody. So I think as a coach, that's ultimately, you know. I think when you do stuff like this, you know, we used always joke around like, I don't sell ice cream, I can't make everybody happy. That's right. Yeah, you're right. But ultimately, you you you report to the locker room. You report to the program and you've got to do things for the program. And I think that, you know, I think when people understand that it's called maturity. Like you said, you hope down the road they get it. And if they don't, they'll be the same guys blaming people for why they got fired. Yep. Yep, absolutely. Blaming people for why the relationships don't work. And you know, I've always hoped that they see it better and are willing to be better than that and take some accountability. And and also, too, life sucks at times. Like you you're going to face adversity. You're going to get fired when you didn't deserve it.

unknown 34:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

You did everything right, your boss fires you. That's true. You cry about it, you get up, you go get a new job.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Yeah. That's right. You know, you're a go-getter, you get up and you go get. And if not, you put your tail between your legs and you cry by yourself somewhere, right? And you're not going to get anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

And that's the great thing about sports, right? Like there's always another game, there's always another practice. That's right. But the one thing about sports is that there does come a time when the game's not there anymore. And hopefully you learn stuff. But I think it's at the end of the day, right? You just you want to have you want to have fun doing this.

unknown 35:27

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

I think I, you know, listen, earlier in my career, I coached some teams and nobody had fun. They didn't have fun. I didn't have fun. We weren't good. It sucked. That's why I say, I'm like, you guys are miserable. I'm miserable coaching you. I'm miserable coaching. This sucks. Like, okay, so we're going to cry about it or we're going to do something about it. Let's go do something about it.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah, I love it. It's just great, great wisdom that even as a 63-year-old coach, I can learn from. I hope I can change in the next few years.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

I mean, I'm definitely not going to miss being in charge of the division to all Americans. Like, God bless. God bless the next guy who has to do that. Um, I enjoyed it, but man, it's tough getting these coaches to do the paperwork on time. There's certain coaches and they know who they are, like high-level programs who never like, hey, uh, Kevin Stentrum is your best midfielder. You didn't nominate. Oh, I nominated them. No, you didn't. Right. Like chasing guys down. Like, you're the number three team in the country. You don't have any All-American nominations. And then forget about the voting, trying to get the coaches on the same page. I love doing it, but it was it was a lot. How many years did you have to do that? No, I've missed that. I missed the interaction with the coaches. But like I've said to some coaches, like some of the texts I got, I was like, I'm not dying. Like you're still gonna be around. I'll be around the game, I'll be at some tournaments, I'll be around. Right, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Well, we hope we can run into you again. And I think, Danny, you're exactly right. That is a great idea, coach. We definitely want you to come on as a guest analyst during the season. We'll pick a time when maybe it's you know, maybe a lull, maybe it's spring break or something like that at the school that you can, you know, uh share uh a Monday night with us and record on and talk about the games in the past and the games upcoming for the D2 schedule.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Yeah, I would love to. I mean, you look at right the N-10, like that the ND10 is not going anywhere. Pace is gonna be good, Adelphi's gonna be great. St. Anselm, you know, they're gonna play with a chip on their shoulder.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

One last year. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

Um, you know, St.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Light's look out for uh yeah, Assumption, Southern New Hampshire's probably on the way up this year.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Bentley, you know, Bentley's always been good. New coaches, yeah, new chains, big George is back, who's a great coach.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

Um knows Bentley, like you just, you know, I think Coach Lynch and Franklin Pierce will get them moving forward. Like, I just think there's a lot of positives. The league is great. Uh, you know, I think Division II, you know, Tampa's not going anywhere. Like the teams down south, like you know, Wingate, like, I don't know, you know, I think the Wingates and the paces of the world, everybody's like, oh, this year they graduate, they graduate these guys, they won't be good next year. Just reload. There's dudes there, there's dudes coming.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. They just reload. That's why I that's one of the things I love about it is you see those new players that get finally get their chance, and all of a sudden they become the name you keep talking about.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Yep. I mean, Adelphi and Tampa probably a little bit different. They seem to go beyond reload. I think you know, I think we got to look into what Coach Purdy's. Coach Curdy's definitely cooking the books down there. You know, he's out there throwing out that you know Kyle Lewis is turning down 100, which by the way, pissed everybody off in college lacrosse. Coach Purdy was not a happy camper. He was his name was Mud for a little bit for doing that. Yeah. Um it's funny, and then you meet Kyle and you're like, he's one of the best young men you'll ever meet.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Yeah. Such a nice kid. Stub such a nice kid. Comes from a great.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

You know, almost every single day. Like, a lot of respect. I mean, they just, you know, they've got their system and it it's working for them and it's rolling. And it is. I think well, oh, they won't be that good. They'll be good. They'll be just fine. Tampa's gonna be great, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Like their team return.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Watch out for like my guy at Embery Riddle, like Jez will have them. Yeah. You know, you know, wait till Coach Williams and Barry get. I mean, it's just the list goes on.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Yeah. You know, obviously, Coach Boyle at Wingate, like it's just I mean, you talk about pace being consistent, Wingate's been as consistent as anybody.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Yeah. Remarkably, yeah. Boyle's done a great job.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

Nor Ryan. I mean, and then you no one's talking about Meryville and what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

I mean, it's just even Lewis now out in the GLVC is making noise. Oh, great.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

I mean, they these guys, these guys work. I see them in the summer, they work, they get after it. You know, a lot of these guys are people you'd want to, you know, send your son to play for. Um, you can see why they're having success. The schools are into it. Yeah. And you I tell people at the time, just do yourself a favor, watch these games. You'll be so many people who are like, I don't want to be rude, but this is way better than I thought it'd be. I'm like, it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Just come watch. You'll see. Just keep watching.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Yeah. Go look at another another uh game with different teams, and and you'll see again how good it is. Or what I try to say too is like, look at it, if you live near a D2 college, go to the game live. Yeah, it's cost you practically nothing, and you watch Great Lacrosse.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Yeah. Like the Malloy Pace game last year, the first game of the season. That was a great game. Yeah. That was a great game. I was like, this is a good game.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Our games have been good for a while now. Like, I just go down the list like a lot of good games, you know. As a coach, you want to uh, you know, schedule the best and schedule you, you know, your teams, your players want to play good games. Of course. They want to play good games. I think we're we're respectful of the game and we're always respectful of our opponent, but at the end of the day, like it's fun to play against teams you kind of hate. Right. Teams you want to beat. Like it's it's fun. Yeah, it's fun. They don't like you when you you get after it and you play, and when the game's over, you shake hands. Because you and certainly, right, with this the the way the regions are, you know you're gonna see people again.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Like my son Joey said he loved playing at Lenore Ryan in between the bricks. Yeah, and I was like, really, Joe? That's like crazy.

SPEAKER_03 41:43

I think it might be the most exciting, it might be the best environment to play in in College Lacrosse.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

It's a pretty cool place. It really is.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

You know, they're they're hanging off the bleachers, cursing you out. And I've never played there, but like I remember Coach Boyle telling me, and then him and I walking through highlights, and he's like, look at this. Like kids are probably throwing beer cans, the lights are going on and off.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Like, it's just the environment's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

It's electric. Like you're like, it's good. I'm going to my AD. Can we get those? Can we do that? Yeah, my son's. But I just think the way their state, the way their stadium is with the kids sitting there, like, right. Um, and they're good. They've been good for you know, Greg has done a really great. You know, that's why I think people don't realize the level of coaching and commitment in Division II lacrosse. There's good coaches in Division II. Listen, there's plenty of guys we named. If you gave them a Division I program, they would do well. Yes. And I'm not, I'm not so certain, and I'll be, I'll put my name on this. I'm not so certain some of these Division I guys could even coach at the level that some of these they've never coached at a school like these places. Right.

unknown 42:53

Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

They've only coached it like big name, big resources. Right. They've had, you know, and they gotta work and they're competing. It's difficult, but like, you know, you're making a ham and cheese sandwich before the game as a division two coach, and you're doing the laundry after the game, you know, yeah, you don't have time to make all these crazy drills because literally you're like going to like make a ham sandwich for the guys.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, yeah. 100%. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

But certainly I don't I don't think the division two gets enough respect for the level. I mean, JB Clark, you know, you look at the wins and what he's done in winning and winning multiple places, like he makes good adjustments.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

He, you know, his his he's a good coach. He does he thin about things like heat and like exhaustion. Like he thinks about things that not a lot of people are thinking about.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Yeah, they might be listening, right? There are so many great coaches in division one, two, and three, but that's something I heard over the years that kind of used to rub me the Wrong way, like about like the division coaches weren't that good. And I'm like, I don't know, Danny Sheehan, Mike Morgan and Merrimack. Like exactly. You know, you go down the list, like these guys killed him.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

And in the past, Postel and all of those guys, you know.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

And Tommy Postel was as good as game day coaches that's ever been in this game.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Um so it's division two, man. I I again they say it's not real. I think it's really real. And I think it's gonna get better because of the the cap at division one, and then with the month.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

It's just all get it's all getting pushed down. I mean, you know, I look at this 28 class and like, you know, like I talked to Coach Mac at Pace, like, let me know when you're ready for 28 names, because I got good kids to send to you who are interested for all the reasons we talk about, that like I think are potential division one players, but they're just they're not even getting looks. Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

You know, I think the hardest places to go right now is some of the high-level division ones and the Tufts of the world. Because they're just like Tufts is saying, we'll take you, you, and you, because everything is being pushed down and there's just not enough room for people in the division one rosters. And you know, that was before this five and five, and now the five and five, and it's just like I said to you guys earlier, like you know, the division one coaches, like, yeah, God bless them. Yeah, what they're going through right now.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

And and they also know it's it hasn't stopped, it's gonna keep changing and changing in every year, and every time, every time a rule is changed, it it's like the butterfly effect, right? You think something, you touch something, and then like you don't understand the ripple of 30 stages down the road. Right, right, right. And then now, I don't know, does division three get a fifth year? What happens there? Like it's just I know, you know, and why division one and division two get it, but division three doesn't get like this just yeah, it's all it's crazy. And then trying to stick to a 48-man roster.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

Oh, I know. Yeah, and that's gonna have that trickle down even more for for division two again.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

Well, and then you know, I think you get these division two guys like, oh, you know, I had a great career, I'm gonna go to Division I it's gonna be hard. Good luck, right? It's gonna be hard. Good luck. You know, I think the elite guys, the Kyle Lewis, who's like, I mean, everybody was interested in Kyle Lewis when he went in the portal. Yeah. The one that bothered me was Dylan Renner. I think he's as good as any goalie I've seen. And he got looks, but like I tried telling some people like if he comes to you, you'll win a national championship.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Yeah, he's good.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

Yeah, like he was that good.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Um, like I kind of wanted Kyle to go for a lot of different reasons. Um but honestly, I wanted him to go. The the main reason. One, I know he's a quality young man. You know, as much as it would have sucked for division two, I wanted him to go tear up division one. Yeah, yeah. Because you saw that he was coming to PLF.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

He would have done great in division one.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

100%. When Coach Gato asked me, I said he's the best MIDI in college lacrosse. And he's like, Division two. I'm like, no, in college lacrosse, in my opinion. He can play offense, he can play defense, he competes, he's got the heart of a line, he's a quality, quality person. Like you want him representing 100%. I am not surprised at what he did. And you know, listen, there's other kids like that. They're not a lot. I mean, yeah. He's definitely the exception, not the rule, but I think it shows there's guys, you know, you look at the the tough kids who tore it up in the the Ragnarry kid, tore it up. There's guys out there can play.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

I remember that guys are gonna get, are they gonna get a shot going forward? How's it gonna affect?

SPEAKER_01 47:48

And it's gonna affect them. It's definitely gonna affect them.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

And the thing that I've said all the time is like, you know, football and basketball, five and five is great. They're all on full scholarships.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Right. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 47:59

Lacrosse, a lot of these kids are not on full rides. Right. You know, can mom and dad afford a fifth year? Yeah, exactly. Do you have a job? Does it fit? I mean, there's so many different layers. 100%. I think if you're an elite player, you'll play a fifth year. But if you're like a second line midi, do you play a fifth year? I don't know. There's just so many and we're putting a lot of stress on the these kids who, you know, who ultimately are college kids. Yep. And now it's the senior year. They used to stress about getting a job. Now they're stressed about do I get a job? Do I come back? What do I do? Do I come back to my school? Do I transfer? Right, right. 100%. Yeah, it's a lot going on. But at the end of the day, right? You're gonna work the rest of your life. You have a chance to play, go play.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

That's what I say. That's what I say.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Well, coach, this has been awesome. We really appreciate you coming on. I I can't thank you enough. Danny and I can't thank you, both of us. I think I'm speaking for Danny. I'm sure Dan will have a few words, but like I said, we're gonna get you on in the season, and uh we we can't wait. We're really thankful that you came on this time.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. I said it earlier, like you guys have been awesome. Definitely look forward to kind of seeing, you know. I do now find there's like an AD, I don't have the time. And the other thing is I don't have the commute. You know, for 13 years I was driving two to four hours every day, and now like I forgot I didn't drive to work today. Like, you know, so I'm still in the office. Yeah. And you know, I'll hang up this call and I'll be home. Right. It's like a four-minute walk from my office to my house. So I I definitely am enjoying that, um, especially after a community. And I love the community just because of the job, but man, it gets old. You know, as we know, the tri-state traffic sucks.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

Oh, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

But I certainly appreciate you guys. I look forward to continuing to follow you. And, you know, anytime you need, you know, if you need someone to come on and babble, I'd be more than willing to do it and help out. Um certainly I feel, you know, I feel invested into Division II and College Across, and that doesn't change just because I'm not working there. You know, I want to support and obviously, you know, don't count out pace and what they're gonna do. Coach Mack will be fine. Coach, you've got the double Janvies there, you got Coach Gorp, like pretty much the staffs in town. Um, you know, Coach Mack is a tremendous coach, like, and there's tremendous players there, and these guys care. They care about it, and they they'll be fine.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Coach Mariano, appreciate you so much. We uh have a lot of respect for you and everything that you've done for Division II and wish you success there at Perky Oman there as the athletic director.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

Look at you, you you nailed that. You nailed that.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

I've been practicing. Nailed that.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

No, like I said, I appreciate you guys. I look forward to hearing from you guys and appreciate and thank you for everything you do for the presentation.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Tom Mariano, everybody.

Shout Outs

SPEAKER_00 50:56

He's just awesome to have on, Coach Mariano. What a breadth of knowledge and just just from his experience. Like we we went through so many different topics, not only just pace and perkeomen.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Respect the guy, man. I've always had a lot of respect for Coach. I always did. I mean, he he recruited my middle son, you know. We went up to visit, we took the walk, we did the whole thing up there, and Coach Mariano had just come from Sacred Heart at that time, and he was right that you know the facilities weren't the best at that point, but what he's done there is nothing less than fantastic. I mean, he's left his mark at pace, he's left his mark in division two, and again, I've always had a ton of respect for him. I just like his frankness, his openness. Um you know, that's something that um he's a real guy, you know, and he's just real. And what you see is what you get with Coach Mariano, and I just I love his family life and what he does with his kids. Like you said, his daughter went through pace and got a couple of national championships up there with the women's lacrosse team. And his son is doing killer, and then he's coaching Korea and traveling, and the guy's something else, man. He really, really is.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

And he makes time for you. I remember when I was at the lacrosse championships uh in Boston two years ago, and I saw that he was there, and I just DMed him, and he's like, Yeah, let's meet up. Come on down, I'm in this section. And like I sat with him for like a quarter of a game. Yeah, just talk to him and his family.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Yeah, he's that kind of guy. Again, a lot of respect for Coach Mariano, and I I wish him all the best of Perky O'Connor. I do too. They have a good man. Oh, 100% they do. They have a good man.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

All right. Do you have any shout-outs? I have no shout-outs tonight. Kev Um uh shameless plug, Danny, for us. Okay, and that's our YouTube channel. We have a YouTube channel called it's at In the Crease Lacrosse Pod. If you look it up, if you search for In the Crease, it's gonna take you a little bit to find it because there's other ones on on the YouTube channels, but in the crease lacrosse pod will get you there. All our season seven episodes will be posted there. Oh no. So I gotta now I have to shave. You don't have to shave, just hide it behind the mic.

SPEAKER_01 53:21

Shave. I can't be on Nest. That's why I'm showing this background now. Looking all disheveled and stuff. I'm gonna have to have to fancy up now. Oh boy, we're taking it to a new level, aren't we?

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Danny, we can never fancy up. Let's just face facts. All right. I'll take that. That's the only thing. I'm you know, dabbling in the video editing. Uh, hopefully it'll get better and better as I perfect my editing skills. Perfect is probably the wrong word. As I get better. Okay. And it won't be linear. There'll probably be some stepbacks and move forward, but I'm gonna try my hardest to get better and better at it for the YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Well, we remember when we first started, we couldn't even get music on the thing. That's right. Now we have music. We won't we don't have any music tonight because tonight was a special night. But um uh YouTube. Here we go. We're on our we got a good channel. Yeah, and with that don't forget, the merch store is open. You want to buy some In the Crease merch? We got hats, we got shirts, we got hoodies, we got high C pint glasses for all you high C drinkers out there. So don't forget to hit the merch shop at uh in the crease lacrosse pod dot com.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

Exactly. Good. That that's not a shameless plug. That's a that is a public service announcement right there, Danny.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

And with that, Danny, I think that's a wrap. That's a wrap, yeah.