A Conversation with Lees-McRae Lacrosse Coach - Brad Dunn

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome to another episode of In the Crease, a coast-to-coast discussion of D two Men's Lacrosse. I'm your co-host, Kevin Stenstrom, and with me as always, since this podcast is called In the Crease with Danny and Kevin, Danny Moran. Hey Danny, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Hi, Kevin. I'm doing well. How are you doing tonight?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

I'm doing very well. Doing very well. Really excited to have another coach on tonight. Um, as always, it's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

I'm excited. I mean, Kev, I can't believe the amount of uh people that are just these coaches are willing to come on with us. I I'm so flattered.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Uh, this is our what, our fifth coach now that's gonna be with us tonight. I think so. Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's I mean, I was gonna ask you actually, we're just about halfway through, if if not, um so what have you been, some of your takeaways uh in doing this with the coaches?

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Well, I I have a lot of different takeaways because each program has something different to offer them, you know. Um, they're in different parts of the country, different types of kids, different types of atmospheres. So each school is different. You know, you had a coach from Salt Lake City and a coach from Tampa, Florida. Two completely different types of areas and what they have to offer the kids and and and still play quality lacrosse. Ding ding. I gotta get that bell, Kat. Yeah, that's right. Every time we say quality lacrosse, we gotta hit that bell. It's an inside joke, coach. But uh go ahead. Yeah, no, I agree with you. I've been I come along with a lot. Uh come away with a lot from each coach, actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

I I think that's one of the main takeaways is, you know, well, one, we've talked about it, the competitiveness uh of all the teams and the competitiveness in the different conferences, I think shines through as you talk to the coaches and and what they're doing in their conference. I think uh the other thing that really comes through is like you said, they're just always a little, there's a few differences in each school and what they're what they can bring uh to the table for the teens, not only their team, but for recruits who are maybe looking at them. And I think, like we discussed, uh, I think it was last week, you know, there is a niche. You can find your niche based on what you're looking for at any D2 school, which I think is is f phenomenal. I think that's one of the reasons that drew our sons to to D2.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Actually, absolutely correct. I mean, there there is, you know, my my son was looked at, we we discussed this, he was looked at at like all three divisions. But you know, he uh he he liked the D2 atmosphere, and and and when he stepped on campus, it was that was it. And and like same thing like what your son went through with some of the coaches poo-pooed it, like why is he going D2, that type of thing. But as you and I both know, that division two is playing a super duper high quality lacrosse. And um, we have somebody special here with us tonight. Let's get to it.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, so let's let's get into it then. Let's get into it. So we're really excited uh to talk with this coach because what I find fascinating is he came back to coach at his alma mater, and we'll get into that because not only is he coaching as alma mater, but he's playing in probably one of the toughest conferences in D2, in my opinion. Really, really high-level lacrosse that that he's got to compete against and and try to recruit for. And I I just find it um, you know, I I actually I love watching this conference play. It's a fun conference to play. So um let's welcome in Lee McCrae, Bob Katz coach, Coach Brad Dunn. How are you doing, coach?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Hey, gentlemen, how are you? I'm doing great tonight. Thanks for having me on. Very, very excited and honored, honored to uh to join you guys tonight.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Thank you so much for coming on, coach. I know that you're a busy guy and you got uh the team is back and and classes have started, and we really appreciate you taking a few minutes to talk with us tonight. We really do appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Uh it's my absolute pleasure. Any anytime I get an opportunity to you know to speak about about the game that we all love, you know, I I relish those opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, so we we typically coach, we don't put our although my wife is trying to convince us to do a YouTube channel and put the put the video on YouTube as well. I do want to point out to everyone who's listening that um not only are you in, of course, your Lise McCrae shirt, but you're in your office that is is showing your true love for your school with the with the green walls there.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

So Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Absolutely. So read it in your bio that you or that you you really do, uh you really are green and gold through and through. So what does it mean to coach at the school in which you played? That that must be pretty special.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

You know, it really was. Um, you know, way back when uh you know I I kind of made the decision that that coaching was was my calling in life. Um, you know, I'd I'd been doing the the the nine to five, working in, you know, banking. And um, you know, I had an opportunity to, you know, I started out as sort of just a JV high school coach, um, just sort of part-time on the side. Uh, one of the the CEO of the of the company I was working for, the um credit union I was working for, reached out to me and said, Hey, you know, we're trying to start up a club program, uh high school club program, would you be interested? And um said, Yeah, absolutely, love to help out. And yeah, just absolutely fell in love with with the coaching side. Um, obviously always loved the game, um, attended as many games as I possibly could. But when I got an opportunity to get back on the sidelines and and fell back in love with the game from the coaching side, I knew my end goal was to end up back here in Banner Elk and end up back in Athleys McCrae. Um, you know, this school is is just so, so special to me. Um, it's such a unique school. Um, you know, tucked up here in the North Carolina Mountains. Um, a lot of people don't you know really know where we are, but you know, it's it's a very, very, very special school located in between two ski slopes and um just a very yeah, the community, the community feel of of the campus. But then in in the county as uh itself is it's just it's just a different feel. You know, I grew up, you know, I grew up right outside Washington, DC, um, in the in the beltway and the hustle and bustle and um you know for me to pull myself from that and and come down to Banner Elk, you know, one stoplight mountain town, resort-based town um was was quite the shock. But you know, I I embraced it for all it was. Um I embraced Lise McCrae for all it was and uh absolutely just fell in love and and knew that if this was going to be my career path, I I had to get myself back in these mountains. This is where I this is where I wanted to live. This is where I want to raise my children. And um I just just blessed. I was very, very blessed when I when I got the call to come home.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

So yeah, that it's funny you say that because I live in uh I live in the DC area right now, close to where you grew up in Herndon. I live in uh Fairfax County in Burke. Um and been here uh for 15, 16 years. And um I'll tell you, it sounds a lot better now in the mountains of North Carolina. I can tell you that much right now. I it sounds like that's the let's do. So talk to me about that. I mean, how you know you coached high school, um, you coached, I I think you coached college club too, and then progressed into D2. Do you think those those is that kind of what you were trying to get to to get to D2? Do you think those kind of things helped you get there and be able to be prepared to coach at D2 level? Or or you know, I'm just curious on that progression of coaching for you.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Sure, sure. Um, so you know, I kind of I kind of got a later start than uh than a lot of coaches. Um a lot of coaches do. You know, um nowadays you're seeing so many um you know recent graduates jump into a grad assistant position and then into uh um you know maybe a part-time assistant position, you know, and they're still in their their um early, early to mid-20s. You know, I I started a little bit later. Um so um I'll be completely candid with you. Uh when I first initially interviewed for this position um prior, you know, several years earlier, um, I interviewed as a as a high school coach knowing I wasn't gonna get it, but I wanted to put my face in front of our athletic director and make it very clear that, hey, if it takes you know two years or if it takes 20 years, I'm gonna be your head coach at some point. Um and I reached out to him and I said, okay, you know, what are the steps that I need to take to coach this team? I said, this is this is where I want to end up. What do you need me to do? Um, so he kind of gave me a checklist. And you know, part of that was to um, you know, I is is why I took the step to uh to run the the Coastal Carolina program um for uh for ultimately one season. I was there for about a year and a half, um, but I I coached them in the in the 2017, spring of 2017 season. Um, you know, that was just a um an opportunity for me to work with college-age student athletes, um, albeit, you know, they were a club, you know, but we ran it, you know, we ran that program as if it was a a varsity program. You know, I had uh, you know, I had the guys in in the weight room together, I had the guys, you know, at practice. Um, you know, really the only difference was they were paying dues versus getting a scholarship. Um, you know, but we ran that thing as as close to um as close to a varsity program as possible. So um, you know, I I was just sort of following the uh following the the benchmarks that were set forth for me uh by the uh by the athletic director here at Lee's McRae, um, who is a a dear friend of mine. Um he was the cross country coach when I was a when I was a player here um and and took has been the AD. Uh I believe he's now in his 12th year. Um so I've known him for a very long time. We have a great relationship. Um so I felt very comfortable, you know, making my intentions known that, you know what, I'm I'm gonna be your lacrosse coach. You just tell me what you need me to do so that you can sign off on it.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

I I actually love that coach. That that uh for a couple reasons, right? One, um, you know, you you had a goal in mind. Um, but I think two, even more importantly, you weren't afraid to ask the question of what do I need to do to get there? Right. That it's not that's not an easy thing to do. And I think you probably deal that with deal with that with your student athletes every day, right? I mean, some of them are probably at their level right now where they don't even maybe know what they want to do after college, you know, but some of them don't even know. And if they do those, some of them are also afraid. I remember my kids, especially in high school, and they they're trying to learn it when they become more independent in college, to ask, don't be afraid to ask the question, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, no, that's a you know, it was it was a life lesson that you know that I learned through my um you know, through my adolescence and in my college years was, you know, you you have to put yourself out there, you have to um you you have to get seen and and make your intentions known. And you know, and like you said, don't be afraid to ask the questions. You know, if you're a you know, I I tell my guys, you know, even at practice, like, you know, there's no such thing as a stupid question. You know, like if you don't know what's going on, you need to ask. Because, you know, we can't make assumptions anymore. Like, you know, if you assume something is is the way it's supposed to be, you may or may not be right. And so why not just go, you know, go straight to the horse's mouth? Let's get the answer. Because you know what, there might be two or three other guys standing behind you that have that same question that you know are are too afraid to step up and do it, you know, step up and ask that question. So yeah, I think you know, just you you gotta put yourself out there, you gotta make it known and and and and chase your dreams. You know, this was this is my dream. This was my dream goal. You know, this is my you know, this is my my never land, if you will, is is Lise McCrae College and Lise McCrae Lacrosse. Like I have, you know, uh I wanna I I wanna drive this program, you know, as long as my as long as my heart will let me, I guess, you know, before my heart gives out. Um, but you know, even uh you know when I you know when the time comes and you know I I turn I turn the program over, um, you know, I'm not leaving Lise McRae. Like I want to I want to roll into you know uh an athletic administration role or you know somehow help out, you know, stay within the Lise McCrae family because because this school just gave me so much and you know I'm just I'm just so passionate about you know about Lise McRae lacrosse, but about Lise McRae athletics as a whole. You know, I think it's it's just such a such a special place where you know we we find such special athletes um who commit to you know commit to wearing the green and gold. And um, you know, I wanna I wanna help I want to help them all, you know. My my sole focus right now is is growing the lacrosse program. But you know, I I I'm here to help any program. You know, I have a we have such a good connection amongst all of our all of our head coaches up here. You know, we got a great group chat that we that we're all involved in. And you know, like right now the men's soccer team is on the uh out there on the pitch, you know, and um, you know, when I finish up here, I'm I'm running out there and I'm gonna cheer those guys on, you know, because because they cheer us on in the spring. So just very, very special place. And you know, this is this is it. This is my like I said, this is my never land. This is this is where I'm gonna uh they're gonna bury me one day uh in these beautiful mountains.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

School pride, that's what that is. School pride in every sense of the word. In every sense of the word. That was excellent, coach.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah, and so I mean, I I kind of have a follow-on question, but I also am really so let me ask this follow-on question as we were talking about when you you first asked the AD, like, what is it gonna take? What was the how many years in between you when you started that checklist for him, did you then take over the program?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Um so it was I guess it was four years. Um, four years from the first time that I um that I spoke with him and I made my intentions known um to when I actually was able to uh you know, when I was able to take over the program. Um and you know, he like I said, he he said, you know, there are certain boxes you need to check. Um, you know, and he gave me he gave me the list and you know, slowly but surely I I I started nailing off uh all the while, you know, bettering myself as as a coach and and you know finding you know different mentors within in the coaching ranks. And um, you know, like I said, yeah, it was it was about four years. It was about four years from from first uh to acceptance of uh of the position up here in in the fall of 17.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

And I'm and I'm sure, coach, that's a that's another that's another great lesson, right? I mean, you know, obviously to me in my uh later years, much older than you, coach, now four years goes by like that, right? I've seen my son in college, both my sons, my oldest son graduating four years now is in grad school in my my middle, you know, it's just but already a senior in college. It just goes by that fast. But for your student athletes, four years is a long, long time, right? I remember, I remember back in the day. So that's another great lesson I think you you probably impart to your team is that you know, if you have that goal, you have to also be patient on how to get there.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. Um, you know, whether you're uh a student athlete or not, it's you know, you know, this this four-year window, um, albeit when you know when you're in the middle of it, doesn't seem like, you know, it doesn't seem like it goes by that fast. You know, it really does. And that's the it's it's honestly one of my favorite conversations I have every single year is is is talking with my seniors um and and talking about the growth that they've they've seen uh personally, the growth that they've seen with the team, um, how you know how they how I've seen them evolve in their leadership traits. Um, you know, because we we we try to start building leaders the moment they step foot on campus. Um, you know, we you know, once you know when they arrive in their first year, um, you know, we start developing them and having them get mentored by some of the older guys on uh on the roster, um because we all understand that you know we we serve our role for four years of building this program. Um you know, whether we you know we come in as a freshman and you know, maybe we go you know 500 freshmen year, you know, our our job is to build every single year. Um so you know, with every new class that comes in, we have to, we collectively as a team, and we we say that a lot. It's a lot of we, you know, it's not uh you know, it's not me or anything, it's it's a lot of we mentality on our roster of you know, we all have to develop each other um because there's gonna come a time where you you are that senior and you're gonna look back and you're gonna say, okay, now I gotta turn the, you know, I gotta turn the reins over to the next generation, you know, to the next class. And they're gonna be the ones that that uh that take it over from you know how far I took it. And um, because I all I want all of them, you know, and again, this could be just because I'm an alumni, but you know, you want to you want to be proud of your alma mater. You know, you want your alma maters to succeed. So we you know, we talk about, hey, listen, you know, you guys set a foundation, you know, and you guys are building on this foundation. And, you know, every year it's it's we're taking that that next step forward. But you know, from your freshman year where you have four years to build to you know that senior year where it's your last year, it it becomes more of a a transitional, like, hey, I'm gonna give you everything I have for this senior year, but I also want to make sure that I'm leaving it better than I found it. Um, so yeah, we we try to integrate a lot of you know those kind of hidden life lessons into our program.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

That's phenomenal. That's that's the way that's the way a good program should be, coach. I commend you for that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah, so going on that, coach, um what because it you start to get into to me, that's part of what the culture you're trying to build, right? Either from from leadership and what you want your players to to leave as a as as they transition out to to build on the program. So can can you just tell us a little bit more about that culture you're trying to build there?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah, um, you know, that was that was the very first thing I I kind of earmarked um when I took this program over. Um you know, it's been you know, it's September of 17. Um, so I wanted to instill the passion and the love that I have for Lise McRae and Lise McRae Lacrosse. I wanted to instill that first. Um I I think you know, if you can find passionate young men who who truly buy into you know what they are doing and why they're doing it, um, then the the success will follow. Um so I took over a program my first uh my first spring. I actually only had 12 players on my roster. Um we were we were very, very short numbers. Um yeah, that was the last year of uh that was the last year of kind of early signing period um you know that I stepped into. Um but yeah, I had I had 12 guys, um, two of which were actually athletes that I recruited from campus. Uh I had a cross country runner and a track runner. Um so I had 10 lacrosse players, uh, 10 lacrosse players and and two athletes um that first year.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

That's crazy. That's insane. Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

It was uh you know my not not at all what I expected when I when I kind of did my my roster analysis ahead of get being interviewed. Um, you know, I I was kind of expecting low numbers, but I I was not expecting 12. Uh, right. So that first year was uh, you know, I stepped in and we we ended up almost cutting our schedule in half. Um I think we only we played, I think what eight regular season games. Um and uh but yeah, we uh we we managed it through um with my 12 guys, um, ended up winning two games. So it was uh I was very, very proud of. Um yeah, very proud of. We actually we won our our very first game. Um my first game as as the head coach, we uh we took uh Montree College, which is an NAIA school just uh just south of us down here. Um we took them to overtime and we wanted an overtime um for my first ever collegiate win um with with 12 guys who you know I mean if you think about it, I mean we were we were lucky to run six on six at practice. That was with if I had everybody healthy and nobody had a late class or anything like that. But you know, that first year, I you know, I was running practices with, you know, six, eight, ten guys normally, and it was just sort of a hey, get in, get out, and let's try not to get hurt. Um Wow. So um it was yeah, it was it was a very uh very interesting year when we were in it. But you know, looking back on it, it's like, man, what a great way to set a foundation, you know. Um, you know, we we hearkened back to it. My uh my father, uh, he actually coins he coined that first team, the Tenacious 12. And that's sort of become um that's sort of become our mantra is you know um you know we haven't we have an acronym within our within our team of you know CAT obviously we're the Bobcats so CAT stands for committed attitude of tenaciousness um so it's it's it's something that you know we you know and I I speak I speak about that team all the time. I you know it's hey if I could do it with 12 imagine what I could do with 32, you know? Right. So um yeah I you know those guys God love them um that that 12 will be you know I'll be forever indebted to them. Um they were the true cornerstone of what what this program has built. Um and and like I said, it's it's a culture thing. I mean those guys they bought into what I was, you know, what I what I believed in and and how I wanted to execute a program. Um and they didn't have to. I mean, gosh, you know, who would have who would who would have, you know, who would have told them no if if if they said, hey, I'm not doing this, you know, this is not what I signed up for, you know. Um nobody would have faulted them for that, but I didn't have a single one of them walk away from me. You know, they all said, okay, you know what, it is what it is. And um Coach Dunn seems like uh seems like he's a pretty passionate guy, so we're gonna ride this thing out and see what happens. So um, you know, I owe I owe those those first 12, you know, so so much. Um, you know, last year was the you know the two the two freshmen that I had um last year was their their graduation and man those were those were some pretty teary-eyed hugs you know after our last game, knowing you know how far those guys you know came with you know with me and with the program. And you know, I I love them. I love them like they're my own now. You know, they're they're some of my you know some of my some of my best friends. And um, you know, we we stay in we stay in constant contact and I'm constantly thanking them for their commitment to the program and buying in because you know those were the ones that I had to build around. Um, those are the ones that I was gonna have for four years. And you know, I I needed them more than anybody to to buy into the the belief of of building you know building this program and and being you know that blue-collar mentality that we try to have. And and they did a fantastic job. And yeah, I love them to death.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Coach, that's a great story. That's something like that's a movie story right there. It really is. It really is. Kevin, can't you tell the pride that coach has to be?

SPEAKER_01 24:27

No, and the passion, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Absolutely. You know, that's a great story, coach. You know, like again, you you know, when we we speak to the coaches, we're we're getting our our own personal takeaways. And that that's a great story, and that's something I would have never have known. And and and and now the lacrosse world is gonna get to know that story. And uh that's pretty good for Lise McRae, lacrosse, if you ask me. That's a that was a great store. I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

I appreciate it. Yeah, it's uh you know, uh again, it's just something that it's not at all what I expected.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

It's not at all what I expected. That's phenomenal. That's phenomenal. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

And and so building the program in in, like I said at the beginning, in such a tough conference, conference Carolinas. I mean, what is that like for you? I mean, obviously you played there. I don't I don't know if it was the same conference back then, if it was different the way it was when you played. I'm sure it's had the changes, but that there's uh it's just it seems like it's uh as you get into conference play, it's just, and of course, last year was even more difficult with COVID, which I'd love to hear your thoughts on as well. But um what do you think about Conference Carolinas and trying to build your team and your program to to compete in that conference?

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yeah, um, I I really like our conference. I really do like our conference. Um, you know, we're not we're not huge. Um, you know, we only currently have seven teams um competing uh for men's lacrosse in conference carolinas. Um but it's it's it's seven quality games. Um you know, starting at the top with uh you know nationally ranked Belmont and and Mount Olive. Um and then you know you have you have teams like you know North Greenville who's you know who's knocking on the door. Barton is building a tremendous program. I got a ton of respect for the Barton coaches. Um, it's a fairly new program. Um, you know, and then and Schwan and Emmanuel, uh man, those are you know, yeah, there's no gimme's in our conference, and I and I love that. Um I think that's the way, you know, that's the way a conference should be. Um, so I I think it's got a great, great balance of um, you know, are you gonna see some of the best? Absolutely. And you need to, you know, if if you want to sit here and say, hey, we want to be the best, well, you know what? You need to line up and and and see what the best really looks like so that you can, you know, you can you can set that bar. Um so you know, we have you know having nationally ranked programs in our conference um that we have to see every single year, I think is a great challenge. And uh again, it's something that we we speak to of like, hey guys, you know, let's close that gap every single year, you know, you know, and because there's gonna be a year where we're gonna be right there nipping on their heels, and and then before you know it, it's gonna be us. They're gonna be looking up at us um if you if you buy in and you believe in it. So um, you know, I I love having you know some some very, very strong competition, um, can you know, teams that are competing nationally. Um, and then you know, having having other programs who you know who are, you know, we we feel that you know we can compete very, very well against. Um yeah, I think we you know we're we're gonna run with everybody. You know, we're not we're not afraid of anybody. We're gonna run with anybody. Um, you know, but you know, I'm a huge believer in in the the crawl, walk, run method, you know, and let me tell you, I was crawling that first year with 12 guys. We were crawling about as slow as you could possibly crawl, you know. Right, uh so you know, to be able to look back and say, hey, you know, look at look at where we're going. Look at, you know, even you know, if you just want to, you know, be an outsider looking in, look at the score margins. You know, we're starting to narrow the gap against some of these elite teams in in division two. So um I I I really do. I I do enjoy our conference. Um, you know, it's great because you know, we're able to get a great balance of of non-conference to conference games. You know, some of these, you know, if if we had you know 12 or 13, you know, schools in our in our conference and we had to play them all, well, heck, I mean, you're only getting uh just a handful of non-conference games. You know, I like the the the uh opportunity to go out outside of our conference and find and find teams um that we that we match up well against and and teams that you know will help us prepare for ultimately what's most important, which is the conference games and the conference tournament.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Yeah, awesome. Coach, looking at your roster, I see you have a lot of homegrown guys, a lot of North Carolina boys. Um, where do you go to recruit? What are you doing in the recruiting sets? Are you going to high school games? Are you going to um individual showcases or team showcases, tournament type things? What are you doing in the recruiting sense at Lees McCrae?

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Yeah, um, so we'll spend we'll spend the majority of the summer on the road, on the uh on the classic recruiting trail, if you will, um hitting the uh the showcases and the team tournaments. Um you know, now that I have uh you know Coach Singleton, um, who is also an alumni as well, my assistant coach uh is an alumni as well. Yeah. Um, you know, so we're we're really trying to start to broaden our broaden our reach a little bit. Um my first few years, we did stay relatively local. Um we you know we would do, you know, obviously Maryland. Um you can go, I mean you you throw a stone in Maryland and you're gonna get you're gonna find the lacrosse tournament in the summer. So um yeah, I was like, absolutely. Um so you know, I'd go up there a couple of times, but um, you know, we spent this uh this past summer. Um we we hit um gosh, Singleton went to Utah, he went to Texas, um we've done Florida, obviously the Carolinas, Maryland. Um I snuck up to uh I snuck up to Connecticut. Um so you know we're really trying to, you know, we're really trying to you know spread our wings a little bit and and grow the uh you know grow the brand. Um, you know, and let people know that, hey, you know what? Do you like the outdoors? Do you like the mountains? Are you a skiing snowboarding kind of guy? Like, hey, we got a place for, you know, because I mean, like I said, we have we got two mountains, two, you know, two ski resorts in our backyard. Um, you know, I mean, we actually have a degree in in ski business industry. Like you can major in how to run a ski mountain. So it's like if if you fancy yourself an outdoors, you know, an outdoorsman and and someone who enjoys you know all four all four seasons, why not give us a look? So um so yeah, we're really trying to uh you know, but we we do a lot of the a lot of the the summer recruiting. We're building our fall, our fall recruiting schedule right now, um, the tournaments that we're gonna be uh be attending. Um and then we rely a lot on um you know all the the bucus of um of recruiting websites that are out there. Um the NCSAs, field levels, captain news. Um, you know, there's there's a lot of online um resources as well. Um you know, with us being with us being a little secluded. I mean it's you know, we're two and a half hours to Charlotte, you know, two hours to uh Greensboro, and um you know, we're we're kind of you know stuck up in the mountains a little bit. It it does make it difficult for us to you know go see uh uh a high school game on a Wednesday night. You know, it's not like we in practice early and shoot 30 minutes down the road. You know, we have to really plan on that. So we do uh a lot of emphasis on on the uh on the club scene, um, you know, the the travel ball and and but you know individual showcases as well. Um and we're really gearing up our our own personal uh prospect days. That's something uh you know, Coach and I are putting a big emphasis on. We had a we had a really good one in uh in late uh late summer. We had end of July, we ran one. Um and we'll probably do another one here um before the snow sets in um in uh you know in late October um to uh to allow young men to to come visit us and and play in front of us all in one fail swoop.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yeah, that's that's good to hear. So now that we kind of bought Dan is asking about recruiting, what are you looking for uh in a in a player, in a in a in a person to join your program? Um obviously you talked a little bit about that from being passionate, uh coming with passion for the school or trying to build that passion. But what are you looking for in a player and a person?

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yeah, um, so yeah, from a from a player standpoint, um, I love uh just a blue collar, hard working, um, you know, the the classic yes coach kind of kind of player. You know, um we typically run a little bit smaller roster. We're gonna keep our roster size, you know, probably in the mid-30s is is kind of our goal. Um so with that, it does require some of our players do multiple things. Um whether it's a you know it's an omiddy have to take some D mid reps or uh close defenseman be an LSM or um, I mean heck, I've I've had backup goalies step up and play D mids for me. Um so we look for guys who who are willing to uh to put the team first and do whatever the team needs um from a from a lacrosse standpoint. Um, you know, but from a from a personal standpoint, um, you know, I I I want someone who again who who will embrace everything that is Western North Carolina. Um, you know, we're a very unique place. Like I said, we have all four seasons. We do get snow, you know, it does get cold, you know, when you know quote unquote spring semester starts and it's January 11th, and you know, there's two inches of snow, it's like, hey, you know, this is what you signed up for. You know, this is you know we don't we don't hide anything from you. Um, you know, we'll get you your practice sweats, don't you worry about that. But you know, we're gonna um we're gonna get after it and and we're gonna embrace everything that is that is these mountains. Because um, you know, when my guys aren't on the field or not in class or in the weight room, like I want them taking advantage and falling in love with this area like I did. Um there's so much, there's so much this area has to offer, you know, whether it's the you know the trout fishing, the mountain biking, you know, camping, backpacking. I mean, there's just I I want young men who can appreciate that. You know, I I tell recruits all the time when they when they come on visits, it's like if you're if you're looking to just you know sit in a dorm room and play Xbox, this ain't your place. Like, you know, I want you know, I I want to wake up on a on a Sunday morning and and check my Instagram feed and see that you caught a you know a uh a nice brown trout on the river that runs through campus, you know. Um that's that's what I you know we look for in our in our recruits as is people who will embrace everything that is, you know, the Western North Carolina Mountains.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

And you know what, that's cool, coach, because now our podcast is gonna get out to people and kids are gonna hear that that that that don't know about that and that love to do that type of stuff. So definitely the word's gonna be getting out about Lise McCrae after tonight for sure. Um it sounds like a great place. I want to come up and visit, actually. I want to I want to come down and check out Banner Elk and and and see what it's like because Coach Coach is passionate about the community as much as he is as he is the program, and and that's pretty cool, Coach. Uh I'm I'm learning a lot tonight from uh from you and the Lise McRae program.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

It it really is. It is a special place. Obviously, like I said, it's this is home to me. Um my parents actually followed me here when I started as a player back in 2001. Um, and they they own two small businesses right here in town. So I mean, this is this is my home. This is this is the place that I am I am most proud of. And um, you know, I yeah, I'd I would love I'd love for you to come down. I'll I I'll get you in touch with mom and dad and you can stay at their bed and breakfast. And yeah, that'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

That'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

That would be the in the crease on the road.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

That's what we need to do, Danny.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Oh, oh no. Oh no. Where are we going with this? Next thing you know, it's we're gonna be going to like some barbecue joints, and it could go crazy from there, Kev. You know how it could be.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Uh on location, you know. We'll we'll uh we'll talk to Coach Dunn during the season right on location after a game, and then we'll add it into the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

I want to take a spin up to next time in I'm in Charlotte area. I'd like to take a spin up to Panoral can check it out. Maybe even stop by coach's office and shake his hand and introduce myself.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

I'd be honored. I'd be honored to have you guys up.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Well, we we appreciate it, coach. Um I think one of the uh questions I I uh one of the last questions I have is you kind of talked about that crawl, walk, run um uh philosophy. It's funny you say that because I use that a lot in in what I do for business and and business development when you're trying to get a new customer. Um and I I'm curious, based on you know where you were in the crawl stage with the tenacious 12. Um, you know, if you had some sort of like five-year plan or you know, where you've how you figured out what your crawl walk run would kind of be. Obviously, going from 12 to 32, you're you're you're at least you gotta be jogging, if not running now and ready to run. So from a from a at least from a a team makeup standpoint by numbers. But I'm just curious if you kind of had that mapped out uh before when you started that uh started coaching there.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yeah, um it definitely is it's something that I um that I considered when I when I took on um when I took on this this position. Um I actually spoke about um in my interview even before I got the job. Um I provided uh the athletic director my um my five year plan um of you know this is where I want the program to be in five years. Um of course I built that again, not knowing that year one was gonna be um with 12. Um, but you know, I again that honestly did not it did not deter me um from from the the schedule that I had made. Um so yeah, I I would say you know we are definitely um we are speed walking, we are jogging at this point, um, and we're we're getting ready, we're getting ready to break into that, we're getting ready to break into that sprint real, real soon.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Uh well it's funny because COVID couldn't have helped couldn't have helped you either.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah, uh, you know, we were very, very fortunate. Um we we made it through our entire season. Um we did not have a single positive case on our roster um the entire season last year. Um obviously the the stoppage two years ago um that kind of caught us caught everybody off guard. Um yeah, that was that's that's that's another story I I could tell about you know how you know we kind of watched it happen in real time. We were on spring break um the week that uh that everything shut down. And um I I was having you know post-practice you know meetings with my athletic director of okay, we have to change this. We were supposed to play Mount Olive the Saturday, um the Saturday at the end of our spring break. So the guys were, you know, I I let them have a couple days off, then they came back, and um it started with, you know, okay, we have to, you know, we have to change the hotel that we're gonna stay in because that's that's a hot spot. And then it evolved into, hey, can we make it a day trip? And then it ultimately it came down and um we were running a it was on a Wednesday when we were running uh we had uh two practices that day. Um the morning practice um was a full-fledged, hey, let's we're getting ready for Mount Olive. Um then I went in, I sat with my AD, and he said, Yep, the conference is gonna make uh uh make an announcement uh this afternoon. Um so I went into that that afternoon practice. I hadn't told the guys yet. Um, but I went into that afternoon practice and then I basically just rolled the ball out and I said, guys, you know, you worked extremely hard this morning. Said I just want to play. I just want to play, knowing that this was gonna be the last time that these guys took the field. Um and the last time for those that senior class, um, I wanted the last time that we were on the field. I I just wanted to play the game and enjoy the game. And um we had we had a great scrimmage and you know um we ended up, you know, I took the guys out to dinner that night to to a uh a really nice Mexican joint we have here in town. And um, you know, I broke the news over dinner and um a lot of tears, a lot of hugs. Um you know, but uh but yeah, that uh uh COVID really, you know, the the screeching halt there, it it hurt. Um but last year, like I said, we we we were able to battle through. We didn't have a single positive case, one season hit. Um and we were able to get our our full you know our full schedule in. Um and and we powered through. I mean it made it made recruiting a little bit more difficult. Um it still is. Um we're not able to offer official visits where uh where young men can stay on campus um overnight, um, which is something I'm I'm a huge advocate for. Um I you know I tell every every recruit, I said, if you have the opportunity, you need to take that opportunity. Um, because what better way to to get a great feel for the team than to actually spend 24 to 48 hours with them on campus walking in their shoes. Um so that's you know, I'm a huge advocate for for un uh for official visits. And um it's it's pain me that you know this freshman class that I that I have on on campus now, none of them were able to do it. Um until you know, until we get uh you know some things change, you know, we're not gonna be able to offer official visits for for 22s, but um, you know, we're still able to you know get them up here for the day and you know uh they could stand out of practice and stuff. But you know, I I I do really miss the having them, you know, spend you know, spend the weekend or you know, maybe it's a Friday, Saturday. Um they sit in on a class, and you know, really I I think what a what a great way to to really get a good sense for what a school and a program, you know, how it's ran, and you know, as these kids say, what's the vibe? You know, what's the vibe of the team? Um no better way than than to get in and and actually feel it for yourself by interacting with the guys for for 24 to 48 hours. Um that's that's kind of been the you know the biggest setback that I you know that I've had uh with uh with COVID um you know in the recruiting. But you know, my guys, you know, God love them. They they've stayed diligent. You know, we've given, you know, the school obviously has has certain. protocols and um you know we as a team we talk a lot about of hey you know we gotta we have to do all the right things you know because we can't you don't want to be you don't want to be that guy that shuts the team down you know um you know don't be that guy um yeah that um you you're exactly right I mean I I we when we talked to to it's interesting you say that the other coaches we've talked to have all kind of expressed how diligent their their teams have been in a very tough situation right I mean that's not easy for uh 18 to 22 year olds to to you know be very um disciplined in how you handle yourself uh you know and and how you did how to do it last year so um so it's uh I I think that kind of goes to another reason why I love the sport and what it can do.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

You know if you if you as a team have a goal in mind you are willing to have that discipline so that you can reach that goal.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Absolutely absolutely yeah no I you know I I joked with my guys all last year you know I was I I told them I I'm so proud of them for for staying you know staying disciplined and staying diligent to you know to the rules I said you know I I don't know what 18 or 19 or 20 year old Brad would have done on this same campus if if if it would have been would have happened in my time. There's no telling what what you know 19 year old Brad would have would have been would have been you know would have been doing um especially but uh but no I I think that just you know it speaks to it speaks to the level of dedication that um this generation of lacrosse players uh truly have you know these guys you know have grown up around the game um they they are absolutely in love with the sport of lacrosse and want to do whatever it takes to guarantee that they get to play the sport that they love. You know so it's it's it's great. It's great to I I love I love the direction the game's going, the passion that these uh these young men have um and it you know and it trickles all the way down to the to the youth ranks. You know I I love going to these recruiting tournaments and they got the you know they got the little guys playing at nine o'clock in the morning you know even if the high school players aren't playing till two or three like I'll go out there at nine ten o'clock in the morning and watch the watch the little guys run around little bobbleheads running around you know and they just they love the game and it's just like man that's you know that's the future that's the future of the game right there and they're falling in love. You know it's it it's just it it's so great to see. I think our game is at a really really good point. I think we have great leadership um you know the within the the IMLCA uh the coaching ranks the college coaching ranks and the US lacrosse is doing a fantastic job of you know of staying ahead and keeping kids safe and you know rule changes and making sure that people are able to play this game play it safely and and truly enjoy it um so I I just I I love everything about you know where where we are as a as a sport as a whole well put coach um in a couple of our last podcasts we talked about just the explosion and the growth in division two over the last five six years and and we're finding that we're getting a lot of D one caliber players coming to D2. What do you adhere that to you know I obviously you know I've never I've never been with a D1 program um but you know I I think the I think the balance that these young men are are allowed to have um at the D2 level you know I've got I've got guys on my rosters that are you know that are resident assistants they're tour guides they're in SGA um they're in the disc golf club you know and and they're able to they're able to to get a a full college experience um all the while still playing the sport that they love um I and I think that's that's very unique to to the D2 uh the D2 setting is um you know I want I want my young men to to experience all that that Lise McCrae has to offer. Yes lacrosse needs to be a priority you know this it's what brought you here um but at the same time I also when you walk across that stage as a graduate I want your resume to be full and I want somebody to look at you know to pick up your resume and say hey he graduated with honors he was an SGA he was a resident assistant an orientation leader oh and he played lacrosse man this young man knows time management skills has leadership skills like I I and I think you know the D2 model allows for a lot of that to happen a lot more um you know so yeah I think we're seeing a lot of a lot of young men who you know who who understand that you know this might be my last four years of truly competitive lacrosse before I have to go into the workforce and I need I need to I need to build the best possible resume. You know I can't just rely on my laurels of being a a you know a student athlete you know I need to be able to to have the the ability to you know to build my resume and patent my resume with internships and um you know and I think D2 you know at at our level we we offer that a a lot more than than some others yeah that coach that what you just said I mean I once again that resonated with me as far as what the sport brings to the the person and what you can get out of it and and what D2 with everything uh within from the school to the programs uh to how you're trying to build leadership in men um really that really resonated I thought it was really well said what do you think Danny this is an excellent evening uh I learned so much tonight but coach is a passionate man and um he's passionate in more than one way I mean just it's his alma mater that's where he went to school he just it displays so much pride it exudes out of coach um he's in a program that's on its way up you know it's not on its way down it's on its way up and that that alone is uh is excitable to recruits there's recruits out there would that want to go to programs like that hey I got a chance maybe to play you know I I I have a chance to go play and and get an education and it's it's this this college is right between two ski mountains.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

I mean Kev, I don't know what 18 year old Danny would do on that on that campus, but you know I'd be up there skiing and snowboarding I know that I would you know and and that's that's attractive to recruits. Uh I I learned a lot tonight from coach I I really appreciate you coming on tonight coach I really do.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

I think yeah we we we can't thank you enough I mean it one of the reasons we do this is um and one of the reasons I did is I I I'll be honest I I don't want to pick every conference champion to come on and and talk because I think there are so many quality pro quality lacrosse programs ding ding ding ding ding ding that are out there. I get the belly you know we that the you know the the past season's records don't show it right and don't show what you're trying to do. And I think you really brought that across tonight and it was it was just awesome.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

I mean I I can't thank you enough and and I I offer this I've offered this to other coaches but I offer to you if you've got you know if we can set up a time during the season and see how things are going it won't be a 45 minute thing it'll make it less because we know you're even more busy busier then but we would love to get your feedback on how the season's going and and uh after you know you know pick a time and and do a 10 minute little interview and conversation and we can bring that back to uh uh our podcast audience yeah I would I would love to I'd love to touch base with you guys um when spring gets here and and you know let you know how how this program has has grown since you know since tonight and um hopefully you know talk about the all the successes that we've had and um yeah God willing hey maybe you guys can you can even heck uh you know huck it down here to Banner Elk we can do it live that'd be awesome that would be great that that'd be great at the Mexican joint at the Mexican joint there you go there you go that's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Well there we go we're we're gonna have to set the date for that increase on the road at a Mexican joint. And I I Danny I think with that that's a wrap for for this episode