A Conversation with St Anselm College Lacrosse Coach – Mike Sciamanna

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of In the Crease with Danny and Kevin, a coast-to-coast discussion of D2 Men's Lacrosse. I'm your co-host, Kevin Stenstrom, and with me, as usual, my partner in crime, who I have to admit, is an amateur at podcast, as am I, really, but he is a true professional in D2 Men's lacrosse knowledge, Danny Moran. How are you doing, Danny?

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Kevin, I don't I don't know what to say after that introduction. That's pretty good. Well, I'll tell you, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

I it only takes me a few seconds every night to think of another platitude for you.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

I really appreciate it. I'm doing well, Kevin. How are you doing tonight in in Northern Virginia?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Very, very, very good. Really excited once again for tonight. You know, as I've been thinking about this, Danny, I really feel that the excitement for these episodes keeps building every time we talk to another coach, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Um absolutely. It seems like as each one goes by, um we're we're get we're gaining more insight. And I believe that a lot more people are learning about some of the colleges that we've spoken to, some of the coaches that those colleges might not have been on people's radar. And and now because of that, because of those podcasts and because of what we're trying to bring to the division two table, so to speak, um I'm getting I'm gaining a lot out of it as as personally myself. I can only imagine what other people are are getting from it. And it seems that with each episode, we're we're kind of getting a little better. We're getting a little better at it, each one. But but our guests have been phenomenal. And and tonight's gonna be no different, Kev.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Right. I know it's it's I kind of look at it like you know, you not only their background and what they're trying to do with their teams, but it's also the conferences they play in. All three of those combined to make you a unique perspective for each coach. And and this one's no different, you know. In my opinion, the coach we're talking to tonight is in the conference that I consider the granddaddy of them all. No doubt. Um, and so I I'm really looking forward to that perspective. And and you know, if I look back at his, you know, his time at the school he's at at St. Anselm, and you look at what he's done, he's kind of built his program and built his success incrementally. He didn't burst on the scene. He's kind of built that uh that team to get more success every year, it looks like to me. And it's kind of funny because we certainly were the brunt of it during our our um our predictions for the for the tournaments, as you know, we had E. Crow when St. Anselm beat Seton Hill, which we did not predict. So let's just bring him on right now and welcome Coach Mike Shimana from St. Anselm Hawks. Hey coach. How's it going? Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Hi, coach. Thanks so much for taking the time with us tonight. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah, no problem. I'm I'm looking forward to this.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah, so let's get right into it. I mean, I'll start it off. Um, you know, like I said, you've been the coach uh of the Hawks right now since 2015. And from what I can tell, before that, they were an under 500 team, and you're able to just kind of build on that to now, you seem to be in the top 20 in the USILLA polls every year. To what do you attribute that success and how did you build that to get there?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah, I mean, I I think the biggest thing that we've been able to do is just change the culture here. Um, and that was kind of from day one, what myself and uh coach Anthony Nardello, who's been with me for all six years, what we tried to do, um, trying to get guys to buy into our systems, our philosophies, just working really hard outside of practice. Um, and guys, it took a little bit, you know, class by class, kind of a few guys buying in here and there. Um and yeah, and six years later, now I think we have 43 guys who are completely bought into what we're trying to do. They believe in our culture, they're uh creating a positive culture every day, and that's helped us tremendously over the last six years and definitely helped us last year for sure. Um, like we have a mural in our locker room that we put in this past year, and right on it, uh it's like six guys celebrating a goal. It's just culture is everything. Um, and that's something that we try to tell our guys every single day. Like, culture isn't this stagnant thing, it just doesn't kind of stay in one place. It's it's either gonna go up or down, and um, all that is based on what our guys do every single day. So that's kind of something we've tried to preach. Um, and that's that's where we are now. I mean, day one, season one, it was there was a practice in the fall um where we had a really good practice and we kind of talked to the guys about what our goals were. And our goal, even in year one, was to win an NE10 championship. Um, whether that was real realistic or not at the time, um, that doesn't really matter. I think the point is like we had to set a pretty lofty goal for our guys to do the things that we wanted them to do to have the success that we had. I mean, even that first year we got back to the playoffs. I think we were like eight and six. Uh, we played an overtime game against a Delphi at the time, who had the number one player in the country. Um, they were probably, who knows, second, third in the country at the time. So played them to overtime. And I think that game like went a long way in getting guys to believe that we could turn this thing around.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah, I like that the what you said about the picture uh and you know, culture, because it was not just the picture wasn't just of one person, right? It was at of six. So it culture permeates, you've got to have more than one. A team is more than one player, it's all driving together for the same goal.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, absolutely. Um and and our guys have our guys have created that culture. You know, we as coaches are kind of steering them a little bit, but um, you know, the other thing that we kind of tell them is like this, this is their team. It's not my team, it's not our coach's team, it's their team. Like the things they let happen or the things that they do is gonna um that's really gonna drive our success or our failure. And so we kind of give them ownership of it. Um, and I think that's also gone a long way. Like they meet every Sunday um and they set goals for the week on what they want to do outside of practice. So they'll meet, and they came up with this. Uh, our captain in 2018 came up with this, Drew Bordeaux, who was an all-American for us, just a phenomenal kid, man. And um, so they'll meet on Sundays, they'll stand up in front of their teammates, say, I want to go play wall ball five times this week and I want to shoot a couple more times and maybe do one-on-ones once, maybe get an extra lift in. They'll go out during the week, they'll be partnered up with another guy on the team. They just kind of touch base during the week, hold each other accountable, make sure they're doing their goals. They might go do their goals together. Um, and then they'll meet again on Sunday. They'll stand up in front of their teammates, tell them whether they accomplished their goals, and then they'll set goals for the following week. So it's just like a really good way for guys to push each other, hold each other accountable. And again, that's that's player-led. It's nothing we've told them to do, something that they've come up with on their own. And I think that it's gone a long way. Um, you know, 2018, we played for a conference championship. Um, and over the last three years, we've been nationally ranked and played for another conference championship this year and uh, you know, made the NCA quarterfinals. So those are those are some of the things that they do that um and the culture that they've created to help us get to where we are.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

I I think in order to be a successful team, you you need those leaders that are gonna help hold the younger guys maybe accountable. And that what a what a great idea that young man had to do that. And it's you know, two, three years later, you guys are still doing it. What a great idea. And a very mature idea, I think, for a you know, a young college age level. When he's he was thinking about the team, he wasn't thinking about himself. That's that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yeah, it's it's um, it's been great to see that legacy that kind of he created, right, continue for the last four years. And each captain or each group of captains have kind of put a different spin on it. I think like this summer we had three captains, they drafted teams and then they, you know, set their goals as a team and held each other accountable. And then I think you know, now we're back um to kind of partnering up and that as well. But you know, the consistency of always setting goals for the week and then trying to accomplish those goals for the week has been huge. Like if we kind of we have these lofty long-term goals, yes. Um, but we got to kind of stay in the moment and kind of keep some of those short-term goals uh in the you know in the forefront, I guess, so that we can continue to move forward, accomplish goals, and get better.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah, I mean, that's interesting. One of the coaches we talked about and kind of hit me with this is what are you gonna do? I think Danny said talked about about what are you gonna do on the edge? Was that it, Danny, being on the edge?

SPEAKER_03 9:14

No, the edge work, he said. The edge work, that's right. Because all colleges, you know, you have your allotted time to be in the gym and on the field and be together. But what were they doing to give them the edge?

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

You know, what were they doing off the field, you know, on their own time that gave them the edge? Because basically every college player in the NCAA were we're working out and being on the field at the same time, the same allotted amount of hours per week. So that coach that he talked about edge work, and I thought that was pretty cool. I actually brought that up to my 17-year-old son, you know, something to think about, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Well, that's what I think your your team is doing on their own. That's what it is. It's driving to that that extra edge work by setting goals and then holding each other accountable.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah, yeah. And we, you know, every team probably does something similar, or you know, and we have kind of some a corny term we use, like put it in the bank. Um, so uh, and we use it for a couple of things. So, like when they're putting in work outside of practice, they call it putting it in the bank. Um, you know, and then hopefully at the end of the end of the season, we make a deposit right when we need it. And then the other thing we do with that as a team is at the end of every practice. So, like I have my practice plan for tonight, you know, we'll ball hunt and then we have a two-minute section called put it in the bank. And when we do that, we run, we do something. It might be a 50-yard sprint, it might be a 300-yard sprint, it might be a hill. Um, who knows? Like it's not this big, huge amount of work. It's one or two smaller things. But we're kind of trying to make the point that like the cumulative effect of doing that every single practice for 150 practices, you know, gives us that edge or or helps us make that deposit at the end of the year when we need it.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yeah. So, coach, let me just go back a little bit to last year. And you know, we talked, we started to begin with uh what you've been able to do the last several years in the USILA poll. And I went back and looked at your record and matched it to where you were in the standings, and you were undefeated until you got to the playoffs, and yet you never cracked the top 10, which, you know, and and I'll be honest, right? You know, we kind of talked about eating pro. We looked at, you know, obviously your conference was somewhat split because I would assume because of COVID protocols and everyone, and you didn't play the Lemoines last year or some of the other teams in the NE10 conference as it was split. But I would assume that helped even motivate your team even more, like put a little chip on their shoulder that you guys weren't getting the recognition you you deserved.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Yeah, I mean, I I think like those polls are great, and obviously we want to be ranked. It helps us in recruiting and things like that. But ultimately, like the place we want to be ranked is in the um, you know, regional rankings and things like that for the NCA tournament, which we were holding pretty strong there. So, like you had these two polar opposites, right? We weren't getting the respect in the USILA poll, which as I told my guys last year, you know, a couple guys said something about it, but it doesn't, we don't care about that poll. That poll means absolutely nothing when it comes to the NCA tournament. Our goal all along was to make the NCA tournament. If you look back, we were actually ranked number one in the first um rankings that came out for the regional rankings. Yeah. And so, you know, you look at those, and so we're number one in those guys, you know, get that that confidence. Oh, we're number one, we keep doing this, we can make the NCA tournament. And then you have the US ILA poll where we're maybe not cracking that top 10. Um, so it was kind of two polar opposites there. Um, I and I just think like our long-term goals last year, we weren't really as much concerned with those. Like, yeah, you look at it, and and there were teams ahead of us who I felt pretty confident we were better than, and I'm sure our guys did. Um, but ultimately, like we've been, we had kind of been circling 2021 for like three or four years, knowing this was going to be our best team and our best chance to make the NCA tournament and and uh you know, maybe win a conference championship and things like that. So we were kind of trying to stay more focused on that NCA tournament type rankings because we just felt like if we get in, anything can happen. That's right. We can beat anybody, you know, it's one game, you got to beat someone. So um I guess we were more focused on that. And and that first one, we were ranked number one. And then as our schedule continued and and we kept playing teams that um maybe didn't have the strongest strength to schedule or records, we slowly, slowly dropped to the point where on selection Sunday it was uh a pretty nerve-wracking day and morning for I think everyone involved. But we were just pumped that we got in there.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Well, that's a great perspective because I mean Danny and I had talked about this all last year, even before we started the podcast. And it's something obviously uh, you know, I've I think a lot of fans track it, just like in any sport, right? Where's where are your teams and where do they rank? And I remember talking to my son about his school and where they ranked and at the beginning, and they they should have a chip on their shoulder and keep working hard, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the perspective of that that that pull is nice, but doesn't mean anything for us to try to get into the NCAA tournament. Yeah, is spot on. And uh what a great way to, you know, to refocus your team on what what the goal should be.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Yeah, definitely. I mean, that was 100% our goal going into last year. Um, it was our goal in 2020, too. You know, we've we were gonna be, we had a really, really good senior class last year. Um, they played for a conference championship their freshman year. And so as coaches, we're looking at, okay, 2020, we're gonna be good, um, but we'll probably be way better in 21. So 2020, we need to make the NCA tournament, get some experience for our guys so that in 21, when hopefully that's our year to really, you know, make an impact and have our best year, we have some experience. So then when COVID happens and that kind of gets taken away from us, now we're down to like we got one shot at this, right last year. So it put some added pressure, I think, on our guys. And then you add in COVID, you know, restrictions on travel and things and our schedule getting limited and not being able to play non-conference games. So all those things that we couldn't control became a little bit more stressful because we really, really felt like we had a good team. And if we could get in the NCAA tournament, anything could happen. Um, so I think learning a lesson last year, too, though. It's like you can't control, there's a lot of things you can't control. You got to figure out a way to put those things like out of your mind and just control the things that you can, which was playing the teams we had in front of us, getting better every day, and preparing us to when we do get that shot, hopefully in the conference tournament, to play the paces and the Lemoines or in a Delphi, we're ready for it. Um so I I felt like our guys did a really good job of that. Um, and and ultimately when it came time for us to play in the conference tournament, like that pace game was huge for us. If we lose that game, we're in the NCAA tournament, right? Um, and that was a really close game. We were down, it was back and forth. They we knew they were a really, really good team. Like, okay, they lost to a Delphi and Lemoyne, who I also know are really, really good. Yeah. Look at a Delphi last year, like a Delphi could have been, you know, they're they were probably a top five team in the country, but they just had to play Lemoyne three times the national championship. Um, so we were just like focusing all year on being prepared for when that those big games came and and trying to make sure our guys were prepared to execute in those games. Like we scrimmaged Dartmouth last year after our regular season because we just felt like we hadn't played anyone that would test us quite like um like test us to prepare for a LeMoyne a Delphire pace. And the Dartmouth coach reached out, he's like, hey, you know, I'm looking at this date. Can you guys scrimmage? And so we felt like that was a great opportunity for our guys to face some adversity, get tested, um, and prepare for our playoffs. And I think it it definitely helped us. It helped us for that pace game, and it helped us compete against LeMoy in the two games that we ultimately lost. But I, you know, a couple bounces here or there, a couple things go a little bit different, and maybe those outcomes are are slightly different.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Well, maybe there's some things that you can't control, but the things that you could control, you certainly did. A 13-2 season is nothing, nothing to uh sneeze at, coach. And um even with the protocols, you you guys balled out all year, and you got one guy on your team that Kevin and I, we talked about him several times. That all American in goal there in the pipe, that kid CJ Hart. Wow, what a player, huh?

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Yeah, see CJ is uh he's a phenomenal player, even better young man. Um, he's just like he's a great kid, great guy, um, works extremely hard. He's actually back for us this year. So he'll you guys will get the question.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

That was one of my questions, Coach.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Yeah, but watch out for saying A's, man. CJ's back in the pipes.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Yeah, so hopefully, you know, he can um continue to do what he's done. He's uh so he came in, you know, he was a high school all American. We loved him out of high school. Um and then when he got here, he was just like almost using too much of his athletic ability and um and had some stuff that we needed to work on with him, and we just didn't feel like he was quite ready to start for us. So we also had a great goalie in Nick Richard at the time, who started for two years for us, you know, played really, really well in 2018 when we beat Lemoyne in the semifinals of our tournament. Um, it was just a really consistent goalie for us. And CJ just wasn't as consistent back then. Um, and then finally gets a chance to start two years ago in 2020, off to an awesome start that year. I mean, I think he had like 17 or 16 saves against New York Tech in our first game, um, had a big game against Georgian Court and um, you know, Florida Tech, which was an awesome game too for us. Um, and then COVID happens, right? And so now that's his first year to start. He gets that taken away from him. And then last year is his senior year. So he's really only played one year. So it it was um, he just wanted to play another year. And obviously, we're pumped uh uh about that because he's he's done um, you know, he's given us kind of an edge at that position. I've always said in recruiting, like you need a face-off guy and a goalie. They're the two positions that can steal your games, and and we definitely have uh that guy in in the net. And um, you know, our goalie coach, um Cam Hayward, who's come who came in two years ago, uh, has worked with him extensively. They have a great relationship. Um, Cam's not much older than him. I think he's like 25 or 26, so um, and played the position. So they kind of have that goalie thing going on, which is great. Um and he's done a phenomenal job with all of our goalies who who are are really, really good. And CJ kind of has just stood out of that pack and obviously performed at an extremely high level last year. I think he just gained confidence in every game over the course of the year. And then that playoff game against Lemoyne in the NE10 championship, I think just put him over the edge. Like he was unbelievable in that game.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Sure was, sure was. We we we spoke about him several times throughout the season, watching St. Anselms play. And, you know, again, I always I always believe a good goalie, you know, is worth his weight in gold. And when you have an all-American like CJ, that makes that makes coaching a little bit, a little easier on you, I'm sure. I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah, definitely. It's nice to have him back there for sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Yeah, and then and then if you look, you know, you've got a uh some talented young offensive players with the Larson brothers and and Jack Andrews, uh really impressive last year at the end of the year, you know, and to see them play. So it seems like you're in a great place. And you had a lot of good seniors on the offense, too. I don't know if some of them are coming back, but you had a really good core of young and old, and that young offensive uh uh middies coming back, I think probably puts you in a really good uh place to build on this year.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yeah, I mean, I I think we have we have more guys coming back on the defensive side of the ball, which is nice. Um, and then we just got to put some pieces together, I think, on the offensive side of the ball, figuring out who are our guys we're gonna start on attack, who are the you know, midi lines and things like that, and who's gonna play where. Um, so that's what fallball is for. Um, we've got some injuries right now, some guys who are out. Um, so it's giving other guys opportunities to step up. And um, you know, one thing I think we've we've had over the past couple of years that we didn't at first is depth. We have a lot more depth now. You know, I felt like we could put nine midfielders on the field last year that could give us um give us something. And so we're we're gonna hopefully rely on some of those depth pieces from last year to step into bigger roles this year. On the offensive side of the ball. But yeah, we got a lot of really talented young guys, our freshmen that have come in this year. I think, you know, I would expect to see a few of those guys play and have a big role for us. And then, yeah, the Larsen brothers, they uh they really stepped up. You know, Noah scoring that overtime game winner for us was huge. We actually moved him to attack for that game. Um, I think we moved him like in the second quarter. He had been playing midfield for us all year with his brother Nick, um, who I think Nick is is a, you know, Nick is probably better in the midfield. He's great at wings, he's tough on ground balls and things like that. Noah's probably more of a natural attackman. Um, but moving him, you know, in the Seton Hill game to attack was huge for us. I think he had like three goals and two assists in the overtime game winner. So that's like that experience that those two guys got, and Jack Andrews got, and guys on the defensive side of the ball like Ryan Slattery and Andrew Bonavita, who were both sophomores last year, that NCA tournament experience is huge for them because we hopefully want to do this more often than not going forward. Um, so to get those big time uh big game experience in at a young age will hopefully motivate them because we didn't we didn't win. And hopefully we'll they'll be able to lean on that when we're in bigger games this year as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah, and so speaking of that and fallball, and besides maybe focusing on trying to pick in the pick up or figure out the pieces on offense, what other things are you trying to focus on during fallball this year?

SPEAKER_00 23:29

We're we're just focusing on more like installing systems. Like we're we're we're huge on the riding game, our clearing game. Sorry, like we'd probably do three drills a night, 30 minutes a night on clearing, especially this time of year. Like that's huge. If you can't clear the ball, it's it's extra possessions for the other team and it's less possessions for us. So that's a huge part of what we're trying to work on right now. Um, and put in those systems with our young guys because our our clear is fairly complicated. It's not super simple. Um, and then systems offensively, defensively. We're trying to focus a little bit more on you know, some things offensively I thought we lacked against Lemoyne. Like their defense is is unbelievable. Like every yeah, I mean, every guy's like 6'4, 200 pounds, and ridiculous athletes. And then not even not only that, like their D middies are are ridiculous as well. They have four D middies they played last year that were all unreal. Like you talk about the Larson brothers, like they put shorties on the Larson brothers last year and didn't have any issues with it. Um, and though, and those guys are obviously really talented.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

So yeah, coach Sheen likes that defense, man. He likes to defend. Oh he'll tell he'll tell you himself, I'm a I want to defend. Just I I want to stop you.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Yeah, he was um he we talked after the game, and you know, he he was telling me, you know, he thought the Larsons were really good and they're freshmen, you know, keep doing what you're doing. You guys are really good. He's like, but I put shortties on those two. So uh he was pretty confident in his defense, I think. Um, and obviously that helped carry them to a national championship, which like that's they've done that more often than not, is had a really good defense. Um, but so like watching that game back a few times, what are the things we need to do differently um to maybe win some of those matchups or score four more goals, right? Get to those double-digit goals against uh Lemoyne, which is really tough to do. Um, so I think, yeah, a combination of getting our systems in place, which which haven't really changed a ton and getting guys comfortable with those, but then also like as coaches, what are the adjustments we need to make and what are the things we need to work on to get to that next level, to get over the hump? Like, not just against Lemoyne, but Pace and Bentley and Assumption and a Delphi. Like, we didn't get to play a Delphi last year. I mean, when we talked about them earlier, they're they're unbelievable as well. So, what are the things we're gonna have to do to be able to beat those teams um when we play them this year? And so that that's kind of our focus right now.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Well, coach, you know, you're in that NE10 and they're all big dogs in that in that conference, you know, and it's no easy conference. I I'm looking at your roster, I see you have a lot of Massachusetts kids. Uh, you don't stray too far from home, huh?

SPEAKER_00 26:20

No, not right now. Um, we're recruiting a few out-of-region guys right now. I think having success helps that for sure. Um, our school just like it definitely draws more Massachusetts and and New England um students in general. I think 65% of our student body is Massachusetts, another 25% is is New Hampshire. Um so it's kind of we're more known as a college in the New England area. And then I'm from Massachusetts, grew up here, went to college here for two years, uh, two of my four years in college. I went, I was in Massachusetts. And so um I have a lot of connections with high school coaches around here, know a lot of the club coaches. So um, and those connections are huge in recruiting, just like knowing those club coaches and knowing those uh high school coaches, that has helped, and that's really why we've gotten so many of those guys. I mean, we probably have seven or eight guys on our team who are high school all Americans in Massachusetts. So not only are we getting Massachusetts kids, we're we're getting some of the better kids in the region, which which helps as well. That's phenomenal. That's phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Yeah, I'd have to say, uh, you know, Danny, growing up in Massachusetts, you know, there are a lot of good lacrosse players in that state. Um I, of course, as we talked about, was not one of them. I did not pick up the stick, but uh, but there's a lot to choose from in in in Massachusetts. There's just a lot of good high school programs, and then you add the club programs in there.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Oh, there's a lot of Massachusetts kids, you know, they they bring their clubs to to Long Island every summer to play. And I've seen some of their teams. You know what I what I get out of the out of the those New England teams, they're very physical, they're gritty, physical boys, you know. A lot of them play hockey, you know, they're they're used to that physicalness, you know. And that's the one thing I got from St. Anslums this year was how physical they were. And and and you know, they gave teams a problem just with their physicality alone.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely something that, you know, we we want to try to play fast, especially on the defensive side of the ball and and be physical. And so um, yeah, that that's definitely kind of our style. We're we want to be tough. We want to be uh, you know, we want athletes too. I think that's the other thing. We're just looking for like, you know, we have some guys, like we have a D Mitty right now, Will Palmer, um, who was a high school basketball player, soccer player, wasn't really recruited that that much, uh, wanted criminal justice, which we have a great criminal justice program here. Uh, and we took him on, and he's like, he has worked so hard over the past four years. He's actually back for a fifth year for us on the defensive side of the ball. Um, he was just like an athletic kid who had a decent stick and and uh played with a chip on his shoulder and plays tough. And he's become one of our best D middies. And that hard work and buying into what we've done has gone a long way for a guy like him. But yeah, we want to be fast and physical, especially on that defensive side of the ball. It it creates some good opportunities for CJ to make saves if we're speeding up the other team. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

So let's switch it a little bit more. Talk. I like to hear more about your background, coach. What what influenced you to get into coaching?

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Um, that's a funny story, I guess. Long somewhat of a long story. Um, I wasn't I was not like interested in getting in coaching necessarily. I actually um did not play my fourth year at UMass Amherst. So I had a year of eligibility left. Um, and so I and I I needed to take some extra classes from um transferring. So I finished up in the fall, and then I was gonna do my graduate school at Endicott College in Beverly, where I'm from. And um so I went and started practice with them. I practiced for three weeks um with Endicott, which would be which would have been my fifth year as a graduate student. And uh Coach Quirk calls me in his office and uh we're about to go scrimmage Trinity, I think, like the next day. And um, he's like, You're not ineligible, you can't play. So um at the time, and I think they still have this rule if you're a graduate student in Division III, you have to be playing at the school you graduated from. So I had graduated from UMass Amherst, I'm at Endicott as a graduate student, I'm ineligible, I can't play. So in the next sentence, he's like, I but you want to coach with us? Um so I'm like, Yeah, let me think about it. So this was on a Friday. We scrimmaged Trinity on Saturday. I didn't go to the scrimmage, and then Monday I show up and now I'm coaching. So I had been playing with these guys for three weeks and hanging out in the locker room with them and everything, and now I'm now I'm coaching them. Um, and so I was there for eight years uh as an assistant coach, and that's kind of how I got into it, and I loved it and it wasn't something I had planned, but I think it's a great lesson for our guys. I've told our team plenty of times that story. It's like you can't control what happens to you, you can only control how you uh kind of like react to that and deal with those situations. So obviously not an ideal situation, not being able to play when that was my plan all along. But um in the end, like I'm sitting here, I think it's 15 years later talking to you guys because I'm I'm still in college coaching and now I'm a head coach and um love what I do and and love the relationships that I create with the players and the other people who work in our athletic department and just being around a college campus is is exciting and it's uh it's definitely something that I wouldn't wouldn't trade for anything. So, like things happen for a reason. You just got to figure out what that reason is and kind of go with it.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Excellent. I love it. Coach, tell us what St. Anselms is like. What's what's the school like? How many students? Um, what are the kids into there? You know, uh what are the majors that are the strong majors at the school?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, so um, so St. Anselm College, we're in Manchester, New Hampshire, uh about 2,000 students. Um, some of our stronger majors are definitely criminal justice. Um we just started a criminal justice master's program, which will be great for a lot of our guys who are looking to um, you know, get a master's in criminal justice and take advantage of that fifth year that some of our guys have um who are on the team in 2020. Uh, some other majors, we have really strong business program, whether it's finance, economics, um, you know, a ton of different options there. Really strong nursing program. We only have we have one guy on our team who's in who's in the nursing major, but our nursing uh major is really competitive. Um, and a lot of our sciences are really good as well. So uh tons of options, liberal arts education in New England, about 2,000 students, beautiful campus. I probably everyone says that, but um if you came to the case. No, you're right, coach. I've been there. I've been there. It's it's beautiful. And so, like if you come on campus and you looked at it, the size of the campus, you would never think only uh 2,000 students go to school there. So um lots of space, really spread out campus. And um, you know, we're continuing to improve our athletic facilities, which has been definitely been a bonus over the last five or six years. We've we've gotten a lot more support from our administration and our president and our board of trustees, and um, you know, that's gone a long way in the success of all of our programs, not only Men's LaCrosse, but if you look across the board um at our athletic department and our programs, um, like we're having the most success everywhere we've ever had over the past five or six years. Um, when I was hired, I was hired in August and we had a new athletic director come in in January, Darren Montgomery, who's been here now with me for the last five and six years. Uh, he kind of has had a vision of what he wants to do here. And um, we've had a ton of success. There's been a ton of changes. Like we have a gorgeous film room, it looks like a movie theater, um, 50 seats in there. We use that a ton. So a lot of upgrades and things like that. Um, and then almost like 26% of our students are student athletes. So there's a pretty large culture of student athletes on campus. A lot of our students are student athletes. Um, so I guess that's a kind of what St. A's is like. Um, and and those student athletes support each other um, you know, at games and different things like that. So it's really a great culture in our athletic department.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

So then going from that, what coach um and Danny have I, Danny and I have talked about this uh a couple podcasts about recruiting, kind of from the the parents' perspective and and what they need to do to help their sons in in the recruiting process. Um and we always like to get from the coaches, what kind of player are they looking for? What are you looking for in a player to recruit to St. Anselm?

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yeah, um, you know, lacrosse wise and on the field wise, we're we're looking for athletes. I don't care how big you are necessarily, um, but guys who are athletic, we we feel like when we get guys into our program and guys buy into working really hard outside of practice and working really hard in the weight room, working hard um at practice, like they're gonna develop. So if we can get guys who are athletic first and foremost, that's huge. Um, and then from there, yeah, I mean, obviously offensively, we're just looking for the best offensive players we can find. I don't care if you play MIDI, I don't care if you play attack, I don't care if you're 5'8, I don't care if you're 6'4, right? We want the best guys we can find offensively, and then we'll figure out where you fit when you get here. Um, and then defensively, we just want athletic guys who can get out and you know apply ball pressure and speed teams up and develop into really aggressive um athletic defensemen. So those are kind of the things we're looking for. Like if you if you read my notes at a recruiting event, I'd say like 90% of the kids we have a note on, it says athletic. Um, you know, and some some kids that's that's all it says, just in case they contact us or stuff like that. But I mean, first and foremost, we want athletes, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

So, and then your base, uh like you said, you mainly are have been uh in the region of you know New England, uh especially Massachusetts. So is that what you kind of focus in on your recruiting as far as con like tournaments and whatnot?

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah, we're we're pretty lucky here in Massachusetts to have some really good events where where teams from all over the country come. Like um, they just moved the NLF championships, um, which is a huge event. Uh teams from all over the country competing for a club national championship.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Yeah, mad blacks and all those guys. Yeah, yeah. 91 and all those guys. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

So it's like, yeah, the best teams in the country. You got crabs from Maryland, 91 from Long Island, you got Sweet Lacks from upstate New York, you got um, you know, teams from Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

So they're all coming to Massachusetts, which is huge. So I don't, and that's it's I think an hour and 20 minutes from my house to get out to UMass. So that's huge. Um, there's some other events there. Um, you know, so there's a lot of really good, we're lucky to have some good events here. This summer I was out at you know, the Sweet Lacks Invitational out in Rochester, New York. So I do travel a little bit down to Long Island for events and things like that. Um, but you know, if I go to an event in Maryland and it's mostly teams from that area and out of region, I can reach out to a hundred kids and maybe five kids get back to me, and 95 other kids have no idea what St. A's is, where they are, and probably could care less, right? Those kids probably want to go south. Right. Um but if I go to a tournament, you know, in Massachusetts or in New England and I reach out to a hundred kids from New England, I'm probably gonna hear back from 30 or 40 kids, and all those kids probably know uh, you know, what St. A's is and and the school and stuff like that. So it's just it's just trying to spend my time a little bit more wisely and and kind of get more bang for the buck and and guys that are gonna know what St. A's where St. A's is and the school we have and our program and um and get excited about that email and stuff like that. So um that's kind of what we try to focus on is that more New England recruiting base and those kids just because again, though those are the kids that know who we are and where we are. And there's plenty of great players. There's plenty of great players.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

Oh, yeah, no, no doubt, no doubt there are. And it makes perfect sense, coach. I mean, you got them right in your backyard, you know. Why, why go anywhere else? If if you can get a team that's, you know, you get those athletes that you want, you know, and keep that national ranking going and compete for that national uh that conference championship every year. And, you know, why go to California if you can go right in your backyard? You know what I'm saying? That it makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yeah. I mean, we would love to get more out of the region guys. Like we're yeah, we're probably recruiting five or six guys right now who are out of region. And I always tell them, hey, someone's got to be the first, right? So maybe it can be you. Um, you know, we had a kid from from out of the region up for a visit this weekend. So um, you know, we definitely encourage those guys, but um, you know, we're not gonna, I'm not gonna travel right 800, 900 miles to recruit when there's an event right in our back.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

And they're coming to you, and they're coming exactly or close to where you are in those tournaments, which is critical.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Yeah, exactly. Like that NLF championship, the best teams in the country are uh hour and 20 minutes from my house. That's huge.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

So, coach, you you play D1 balls, you you talked about, you you also coached obviously for many years in the D3 level, and now you're a head coach at D2. So how do you think the level of competition in D2 stacks up from you know all your experiences across all the different divisions?

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Yeah, and I think there are some extremely talented players and really, really good teams in in division two. Um I think the the thing that is different about division two, maybe than division three, it's a little more top-heavy, maybe. And I think that's gonna change. I think as we expand and you get a few more teams and school starting programs, and maybe hopefully we can go from, I don't know, we're at like 70 something, I think, right now, to we'd love to be at 100 teams if we could. Um, or or I mean we'll start with 80, right? First, but we want to expand if we do. Um, but I think like the top, you know, 25, 30 teams are are really strong. The top five teams, 10 teams are really, really strong in division two. Whereas maybe the top 20 teams in division three would compare to maybe that top five or 10 in division two. And then division one is just a you know, the the top teams in D one is completely different.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Um that's that's a whole nother level.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

But you start getting into maybe that bottom 30, 20 teams in division one. Uh, and now the top teams in D two and D three are competing with those teams. Like you saw it this, you saw it this year. You saw Tufts go out and um, I know they're division three, but Tufts go out and and beat a division one team in Dartmouth. Um we've scrimmaged plenty of division one programs in our um in my time here, and we've beaten some of them. You know, it's been close games with some of them. And then even when I was at Endicott, we were scrimmaging Merrimack, um, you know, Division II program at the time and and playing really close games with them, beating them, maybe losing by a goal. Um, you know, we've scrimmaged division one teams when I was there, playing them really tight. So um I think I think you just kind of take maybe top 30 or 40 division one teams out of it, and then you get those top teams, D2, D3, bottom level, D1. Those teams are all very, very similar. I think the thing that's gonna separate some of those teams is is maybe their culture and uh some of those extra intangibles and things like that. Like Lemoyne, probably the most disciplined team you can find. Like, I think I was listening to one of your podcasts, you guys said something like they took 32 shots against us and 26 were on goal. Like, yeah, yeah. You don't get you don't get more discipline than that. Right. Um, but yeah, I I think I hopefully as we go on, we can continue to get more um you know, scrimmages and games between different levels and stuff like that, because I think it's um it's pretty interesting to see those. I think like that Tufts Dartmouth game got a ton of publicity this year. Um teams kind of cross over, which was great. And then we played Dartmouth the week after, which I wish we played him before they played Tufts because they had definitely fixed some things when they played us, but uh they they they didn't want that to happen again, probably as part of it, right? No, and we played him, we played him really tough, you know. Uh Jack Andrews, who you mentioned earlier, he had five goals in that game. Um he's a sophomore at five goals against them. It was a you know three, four goal game mid-third quarter, uh late in the third quarter. And then they only had 26 guys, I think, dressed just because of, you know, they didn't have a season, so a lot of guys didn't come back. Um, and we had a playoff, we played them on a Tuesday, we had a playoff game on that Saturday. Um, so we we kind of had to pull our starters there at the end of the third and got away from us. But um, I think that was a really good opportunity for us to see, yeah, you can compete with this division one program with big, strong athletic kids, really skilled players, really, really talented players. And we competed with them for three quarters. Um, but also like we can't continue to do some of the make some of the mistakes that we've made against other teams and get away with it against a good team. So um, that was a really good opportunity uh for us. But that was kind of that mix between that D1 um and D2 uh to kind of see that. But I think the you know, some other differences like D one gets. way more publicity, um, which I know is something that you guys are trying to bring to D2, which is great. Yeah. You know, I think that's kind of one of those, that's like the lure, I think, to some of these kids is like, I want to go D1 so that I can, you know, be an inside lacrosse or, you know, get, you know, what whatever it is that comes with playing Division I, you know, your team might be on TV or whatever. But what we're trying to convince some of those kids is like you can come here and compete for conference championships, national championships, being all-American, things like that. So um you may not get as much publicity, but you're going to play a really high level of lacrosse and get to compete for championships, hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

You know, coach uh Kevin and I have discussed this over several of our shows. My oldest played for Coach Jorgensen down in St. Leo uh back in 2009, 2010, around there. So I've been around D2 almost like 12 years now and I've seen the explosion of teams, um, the rearrangement of conferences, teams, just more players. But more importantly, what I've seen and especially in the last five, six years, is Division I caliber players playing Division II ball now. You know, whereas maybe 10, 12 years ago you didn't see as many. Now you're seeing a lot of like I'll tell you right now that the schools in the top 20 in the Division II had at least one or two Division I caliber players on that team. Some more like Lenore you know but we're seeing division kids that maybe could go to like a sacred heart or something like that and maybe sit a year. They're saying you know what I don't want to sit I'm gonna go down and maybe try to get on the field as a freshman or a sophomore and and and play in division two. And not only that the chance to stack to stack the scholarships I think is very alluring to some families. As you know, college a college education is very expensive. And um if I can get a chance to have a division two school give me some money for academics and maybe give me some money for athletics whereas I might not get that in D3 or I might not that get get that in D1 I think that's very alluring. Would you would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Oh yeah absolutely definitely I think that that's a huge huge factor. It's kind of like some coaches will say it's it's kind of the best of both worlds right so you get that you get that scholarship money like division one you have and then you kind of have that division three like level as well um so it's it's really kind of the best of both worlds and then we're able to practice a lot more than than those division three schools which I think helps a ton. That's something I try to use with kids in in the recruiting is like if you want to find out how good you can be and really you know become a better lacrosse player, you're gonna over the course of four years, you're gonna practice like almost 200 times more than a kid who plays D D3 just because of how extensive our fallball is maybe not 200 maybe I don't know between like 100 150 times right but that's that's important. You're gonna develop quicker you're gonna have the opportunity to play as a freshman because you might have 35 40 fallball practices where that D3 kid has 15. So you're gonna get systems in better quicker you're gonna you know adjust the speed of the game quicker um so those are some selling points the financial part with scholarships is a huge selling point and then for us it's like well you can go to this you know maybe lower level division one program maybe play maybe not or you can come to a high level D2 program play right away maybe and compete for championships hopefully so there's a lot of things at play there. And then I think another thing that's exciting to watch if you want to compare the D1 D2 D3 stuff is all these transfers now in the transfer portal. You got kids going D1 to D2 or D2 to D3 or D3 to D1 right all over the place. Yeah former limestone kid limestone boy and then he went down to D three and then the kid from uh Mercyhurst is it um Kluber or or I I'm not not exactly uh sure how to pronounce his last name the lefty who was I think one of the leading scorers in D2 last year he's gonna be playing I believe it it's at Denver this year coming up so really I didn't know that yeah we we talked about him a lot in our podcast too yeah I'm pretty sure he's playing somewhere D1 um um this year so and there's there's a ton of kids like I don't keep tabs on all of them uh but yeah there's guys going all over the place you look at Lemoyne last year um you know they had an attackman who was a Syracuse midfielder the year before Le Moine and you know he killed us and so that that hurts a little bit but um yeah I mean so yeah and I think coach that's a lot of it's a huge selling it is a huge selling point what you just said is like um and Dan I have talked about that right a lot of these kids um can make a D1 team but go to D2 and make a difference like my son is a good example uh and maybe I'm biased so I mean I I I don't want to talk to any coaches that tell me I'm wrong but that but you know I think my son could have played D1 ball but I'm not sure my son would have seen the field on that D1 team.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Whereas he's at a D2 school and he's playing you know and there's nothing wrong and so I go back there's nothing wrong with not playing you're still contributing you're still contributing in scout team or still contributing in practice there's nothing wrong with being on the bench and contributing to team because it takes all those players to be able to do that. But you have to decide as a player what do you want to do? Are you are you would you be content with that and being on the bench because you're on a D1 team or do you really want to play in the games?

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Yeah and I I think that yeah that comes down to those individual uh players and recruits like that's a question they need to think about and they need to ask themselves like what am I looking to get out of this experience? Do I want to just be on a team and that's fine. Like that's a role I had at UMass. Like I I barely played in games but um you know worked hard at practice and enjoyed that role and then you know at the previous Division one school I was at I you know started and played every game and was a leading scorer. So to be honest with you had a much better experience at UMass winning games and not playing as much but like those are questions that guys need to ask themselves and they need to think about um like what do I want to get out of this and we we tell every recruit that and less about do you want to play versus do you want to go D1? It's more like you know what you're looking for out of this experience. Okay. You know what you're looking for size of school location major like the culture of that school same thing with do you want to you looking for a place where you can potentially play right away or a place where you maybe have to sit for a while you know the answers or have an idea of the answers to all those questions. So it's finding the place that's the right fit for you based on what you're looking for. So if you are looking to make an impact right potentially right away and and play at a really high level and play in some really big games like NCA tournament games, any 10 championship games things like that, like maybe St. A's is a place for you as opposed to one of those lower level or mid-level D1s. Like we had a kid we lost this year to a D1 school uh in recruiting he's like coach I just have always told myself I'm gonna play D1. I just I'm like have been dead set on being D1 forever. Yeah there's a lot of kids but I I'm going D1.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

So yeah there like Danny and I have talked about there are a lot of um kids and and I think there's some parents like that that want to see their kids play D1 and um you know Danny and I had talked about that before too you know I knew you know by the time my son was a junior that he was getting most of the looks from D3 and D2 schools and we had to push to get looked at by D1. So I kind of knew where we're where he was going to be able to go you know and in the end it it you said a great coach is you got to find the right fit academically school wise culturally and then team wise culturally and then do you fit with the coaches and what they're trying to do. And if you can do that in a you know luckily my son found a school that uh in D2 that gave him all that and that's the most important thing and it has nothing in my opinion that's more important than saying that he's at a D1 school. You know it it could have been a D3 school but I just think you got to find that right fit. Maybe the D1 school is the right fit depending on what you want to do. But I just think there's so many opportunities we talked about tonight again that that D2 offers kind of like you said it's that good mix between D1 and D3 that I really really and then plus a level of competition you know I I I guess we harp on this all the time or people on the listen to podcasts all the time like you said this last time too you know but it really is it's true. I just I that's why we're doing this podcast we can't not spread the word of how good we think D2 can be for not only watching lacrosse but if you're a if you're a high school player wanting to play NCAA to look at D2 schools absolutely absolutely I I totally agree with that and and and you can tell that coach coach Shimana has got it going on there at St.

SPEAKER_03 53:43

Anselms Kevin um his team is trending in the right direction they play in a big dog uh conference Lemoyne at Delphi I I mean big pace just all great teams and and hey young recruits out there if you're listening or parents of recruits um St. Anslim is a is a team that's trending in the right direction with a great coach and a great culture and they got something going on up there. Might want to send uh coach shimana your videos guys and uh and and and and maybe maybe this is a college that maybe wasn't on your radar prior to this podcast. And um coach Shimana's doing a phenomenal job. Coach I I can't thank you enough for coming on tonight. You were great um I learned a lot about the the program I watched you guys a lot last year um uh the pace game again at the end at LeMine game and hey you got to the NCAA tournament that's not an easy task in in this in this day and age in division two it's not an easy task so kudos to you and kudos to your coaching staff and you know your athletic department you're doing a great job up there at St.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Anselm's continued success thank you well I really appreciate you guys having me on and kind of letting me talk about our program and uh hopefully maybe some out of region recruits will hear this and and uh send us their uh films and come up for a visit and uh and again someone's got to be the first one so we can be the first one be the first one that's a good way to end that right now coach really thank you for being on like Danny said it's it's been a lot of fun um and uh Danny I I don't know what else to say but to say I think that's a wrap for today.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

That's a wrap hey another good one Kevin another good one coach Shimano was phenomenal um again every time we do a podcast with one of our our head coaches in Division II I'm getting so much out of it and I hope I hope that people are out there too as well. Again St. Anselm's up in in in Massachusetts it's it's a trending school that's they're playing New Hampshire just to remind everyone it is in New Hampshire. Oh New Hampshire I say Massachusetts I'm sorry I apologize um you know they're playing good lacrosse 13 and 2 last year went to the conference championship made the NCAA um what more do you want?

SPEAKER_01 56:09

I mean yeah I think the other I think the other thing you say is no one should look at the scores of Lemoyne in the NE10 conference championship and then in the NCAAs and think that they weren't competing and they weren't close because you watch that game the score did not dictate actually how the play was and so that's how close St. A's is and what and what they're doing and and um I I think it they're gonna be fun to watch next year. Oh I'll be watching that's right all right so that's another episode of In the Crease and we will see you later