"ALL IN" with Pro Lacrosse player - Charlie Bertrand

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of In the Crease with Danny Kevin, a coast-to-coast discussion of D2 Men lacrosse. I'm your co-host, Kevin Stenstrom, and with me as always is that conductor of In the Crease, Danny Moran. Hey Danny, how's it going?

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Kevin Stenstrom, how's it going in Northern Virginia tonight? I see you're back home. No more Hawaii, no more palm trees, no more.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

I know, I know. Luckily, the day I got back, it was comparable weather to San Diego, so I can't complain. Now it's not that way, but it's uh it's not bad either. I can't complain. You know, no real humidity. It's good. Good to see you again, my friend. Good to see you. And tonight we have a doozy. Yes, we do. Yes, we do. Alright, Danny, it's bonus time. We said last week that we had finished our series with D2 players who made it to the pros. But when this gentleman says he would come on, you just have to shift into overtime. Yes, sir. You this will be a really interesting conversation because of the career progression he has been a part of. He star started out at a powerhouse D2 school, Merrimack, won the championship two years in a row, then his senior year, Merrimack, transitioned to a D1 school. Right. That was the COVID year, so it wasn't a very long season that he was there. So he takes his fifth year of eligibility and goes to Virginia, a D1 powerhouse, contributes so well on that team that he helps them win a championship. So championship, championship, championship, which then leads him to the Redwoods in the PLL.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah. Been watching him play for a while, Kev.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah. I I watched him when he beat St. Leo, helped beat St. Leo in the D2 championship. That's the first time I saw him. And I've been a fan ever since. So the fact that he's actually on and talking to us two knuckleheads is uh is great. So let's welcome him in. Charlie Bertrand. Hey Charlie, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Hey, appreciate you guys having me on here. I uh excited to talk about a little bit of division two. Awesome, man.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

I can't believe we got you on, man. I can't believe it. This is awesome. Charlie Beltran. Uh let me ask you a question. That that shot in Redwood's between the legs. The between the legs shot.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

The sports center top number one in that top ten that night?

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Number one in the sports center top ten. Let me tell you something. That was a sick shot. What the hell were you thinking?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah, it's obviously uh not when you take a lot, but when you're messing around in the backyard and and just trying new things, it's it's something that you try out and something that you've seen guys like Lyle Thompson and I know Josh Byrne did it a couple years ago, and it's something that I've done actually multiple times in practice just from trying it out and and messing around. So and to do it in a serious competitive environment, but when the ball's right there and kind of seemed like perfect time for it. So kind of just had to get my leg out of the way and let it go.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Oh, it's sick. I I watched it so many times over and over again. That was a sick shot. But what a what a uh an interesting um journey you had. Why don't you take us on your journey on like how you got started with lacrosse and how you got to marry Mac?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah, well, it starts back in fourth grade. Uh had two older brothers that played lacrosse, so that's when I picked it up. Came from upstate New York, so pretty popular sport around there for sure. Uh my dad played baseball and his three kids all played lacrosse, so he probably wasn't too happy with that. But all friends at school were playing, and it was actually available in our gym class, even in elementary school. We had Coach Donahue who had some Syracuse connections. So it's cool that it was so prevalent in the upstate New York life. So that's how I got started with it. And uh hockey was always my number one sport. I started playing that when I was four years old. So I was super into it, playing from September all the way through through May, usually, maybe April, but uh it was a long season. And then once I got to I would say eighth, ninth grade, I started thinking about what I wanted to do in college, and I was able to watch my brother go through the grind of junior hockey. And uh I I approached one of my coaches talking about switching to defense actually for lacrosse, uh going to ninth grade. Wow. Played midfield in eighth grade and didn't have a great season. I I mean I had an okay season, but at that time I wasn't a very quick or fast guy. I was I was just a bigger guy and and had decent hand-eye coordination. So I talked about going to defense, and Doug Jackson was our JV coach, and he was like, listen, I want you to just try out attack and and we'll see what happens and go from there. If we don't think we can make it work out attack, then you'll you'll go back to D. And I was super lucky to run into him as a coach. He played and was an all-American at Syracuse University, and we were lucky enough to have him as our junior varsity coach. So ninth grade, I had incredible coaching to kind of teach me how to play the game for the first time. Where up to that point it was more just playing for fun, and and then I learned actual strategic moves and the way to put yourself in a position to score and be better. So that's kind of what took me all the way through through high school and trying to get recruited to go play at Merrimack.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

That is awesome. So did you have how'd you pick Merrimack over? I'm sure you got recruited by other schools. What what tipped the scales for Merrimack for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:08

I had a couple visits that I went on for sure, some interaction with coaches, but Merrimack was my only offer. And I was very lucky because I had a very unique school that I was looking for. I I came up pretty good at math in school, so I decided I wanted to be a mechanical engineer for undergrad. I didn't really know what that meant, but I knew it gave you a good good base to kind of go wherever you wanted. So I was looking at a mechanical engineering school that also had competitive lacrosse. So that really narrows your your search there. And I was definitely, I would say, under-recruited. I I didn't get many division one looks. Uh I mean, like I said, Merrimack was my only offer, but I did go on a couple tours, like Fairfield, Sienna, um, had discussions with Meracross, Robert Morris, whatever it may be. But when I got to Merrimack, it was that small campus feel. My one of my older brothers went to Le Moyne, which was obviously our rival, but I knew how much there and and the advantages of a small campus. But Lemoyne was in Syracuse and didn't have engineering, where Merrimack was in a newer spot to me growing up in Syracuse, New York, uh Baltonsville to be more specific. But the idea of being in a small classroom for engineering, but also being at a very competitive Division II school that would compete for conference championships and hopefully national championships. But at that time, Merrimack had never been to one. So it was it was definitely a dream to go to one and and came into a good group of guys and real good coaching staff.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Yeah, so talk to us about that. What was it like at Merrimack when you guys won back to back?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Well, I was lucky freshman year coming in. It was a a real tight group of guys. It was one of those things where you come in and you're scared if you're gonna get haze or whatever it may be, and it's one of those the seniors take you in and go, hey, don't get in trouble. Let us do let us take the fall for you, type of type of role. So it was a real culture, and and that's the number one thing you need as a championship team. You need you need a culture that takes people in. There's no reason to put freshmen on the outside. You need them to win games, so you might as well be be friends with them right away. So came into a good group in freshman year. We we took it to the championship and it was our first time being there. Uh definitely had a lot of pregame jitters. I think I can speak on behalf of the whole team there, seniors all the way down. And uh we lost close one to limestone by a couple goals and kind of gave us that edge and and that fire to want to go back there again. So when we came back sophomore year, we we were not worried about winning regular season games. We wanted to win the championship. So obviously you got to do due gyms each week, but we we knew what the end goal was. So we had a real good group of guys, great leadership, and and phenomenal coaching. Uh Coach Morgan definitely runs a tight ship over there. Uh he he sets a standard how it's supposed to be, and and you're either in with them and you're out or you're out with them. And uh luckily we had a pretty blue-collar group that was all in with them. And our uh offense coach Kyle Smith and Brian Bazil was able to put guys in the right spots to be successful on offense. And I think it showed in that that championship run, we uh I forget what the actual difference was, but we outscored our opponents to the the record of NCAA in that in that final run when we beat St. Leo's and then uh go to junior year and kind of do it all over again. But it was a whole different challenge, especially for me, where being a junior and an upperclassman, I kind of took on that more of a leadership role. Right. Instead of being uh a guy that could kind of go under the wings of the older guys, I kind of had to take that role myself and take uh hold accountability for get other guys on the team off the field and on the field. So it was a whole different experience for me and and rewarding in a very different way. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

That's interesting stuff. Yeah, because when you get older and you you take on that leadership role, you do you start wearing different hats. You know, you're not just another guy on the team anymore. You know, you're just now you're one of the guys that the younger guys look up to. You know, and and it that's a great thing, you know. And and what'd you think about when Mary Mack went Division I? What did you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Uh to be totally honest with you, I wasn't too happy. I uh Yeah, you know, I bet, I bet, man. I think the biggest thing for me was just that four-year buffer zone that the NCAA has where you can't play in the tournament. I think it makes sense if you go down a division. I don't see the benefits or or the disadvantages to a team going straight to the playoffs if they're gonna go up a level. So it was frustrating going from three years in a row competing for a national championship, and then your senior year, it's like, hey, you're you're done every season. At the end of April, your season's over. So Yeah. Yeah. They definitely have a different perspective for it going in, of course. I mean, that that disappointment that I felt when I first heard it, that lasted a couple months, and then once I got into season there in the fall, like that was over because now we wanted to prove ourselves in D1.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Yeah. Struggled a little bit in the beginning in D D1, you know, but that's a big transition, wouldn't you say?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Absolutely. I think it's just week to week. You you gotta be on. I think in Division II, we kind of could circle the games on our calendar that we knew were gonna be tough games. And sometimes you get surprised by teams, sometimes you don't, but for the most part, it's it's much more uh dispersed between teams where Division I every single week it you don't know who's gonna win. So the first four games of the year, we lost each game by one goal. So it's super frustrating because we knew we belonged in the game. We knew if things bounced our way, we made a couple of smarter decisions that we could have won those games, but we didn't. And the the record said 0-4 to start. And that was a a really cool experience when we were 0-4. We went out to Michigan, and that was our first division one win was on the road at Michigan. And uh they paid for us to go out there and play them. And I remember Thursday night, and they paid for our dinner too, like all our expenses, and we sit down, expecting classic chicken parm per usual, but they bring out steak and potato, huh? So steak and mashed potatoes, alright. Yeah, so it was uh it was a cool experience just seeing them uh pay for us to go out there and and then kind of giving it to them. Good, man. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

That's uh like the cherry on top, right? You you get all that those Bennies from them and then you beat them. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, what was your thought process in deciding to transfer to Virginia? Was it kind of what you just said about playing for a championship in the D1 level?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

It certainly has a lot to do with it. It was uh it was a tough decision. I initially was planning on going over to England. I was gonna go to the University of Nottingham with two of my roommates from Merrimack and get a MBA over there in one year, and I could continue to play lacrosse over there. It wasn't quite the level that I was used to playing, but at least I could have stick in my hand and I could travel and and get a master's in business in just a year. So I once COVID happened, I didn't even know if I could leave the state, let alone leave the country. So I had to kind of look the other in other uh direction and and going back to Merrimack was an option for me and one that I seriously considered, but I also was very interested in what could be the best opportunity for me, both academically and uh on the field. And I kind of just put my name in the portal and and didn't really reach out to schools. I I didn't want to go to a school that I didn't felt like wanted me. And Virginia reached out and we had multiple real good uh conversations where they went over my film, their film, where I'd fit in the offense, and I got a real feel from the culture of Virginia and and what I'd be walking into. So it was uh it was certainly a tough decision, but I uh wanted to challenge myself in a new way, go outside my comfort zone, meet new people, go to the bottom of the roster and see if I can work my way up into a playing spot and see what how I could do in a very tough commerce program in the in the classroom.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Wow, pushing himself uh in all all directions.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

And he and he succeeded in all levels too, which is amazing. So Charlie, when I contacted you, you said you were all in for anything D2. That was a quote from you on the on the DM. Can can you tell me why?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

I have just about my whole career to to think the Division II, honestly. I mean, certainly Merrimack uh is all of that. I owe it to Merrimack, my coaching staff, and the players I played with, but being in that conference gives you a really unique situation where you can come in and obviously those guys that are on the border of Division I, Division II, you know you can play, but you don't know where you'll fit on a team. Usually Division II or Division III, you're gonna have more of a chance to get on the field. I think the depth in Division I is very impressive because there's so many kids that are set on going division one. And certainly you have the scholarship aspect of it too, but division two gives out scholarships. So you can go there and have a cheaper education, but you also have a better chance to get on the field. And I think that experience of being coached a little bit harder and a little bit closer because you're that much closer to getting on the field and making an impact on your team way outdoes being on the bottom of the death chart in the division one team.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

So interesting. That's that's an interesting point. Interesting take on it.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Yeah, so then you reach the pinnacle of success in D2 and D1 and then head to the PLL. Tell us what that's like. What and that what that uh transition being drafted was like. Did you expect that?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

I was certainly hoping for it. You you don't really know what to expect and what coaches see, especially in a draft where there's only four rounds, so you don't know how many taken, but uh I was certainly happy that that I was taken and kind of went and training well, actually I didn't go into training camp because we were playing in the um in the national championship. So I also kind of I didn't get to prove myself in the training camp, but I went into that first game just grateful to be there and and figured there's really nothing to lose at that point. So I was able to get one goal on the board and that was enough for them to trust me again and kind of just ran with it from there. I think I fit into a a good group of guys that took me in again. I mean, I've been I've been super lucky throughout my career, both I I know I touched on the the culture at Merrimack, but very similar at UVA where they took me in right away and I didn't feel like a transfer, I felt like a part of the team. And uh the same goes for the Redwoods. I came in a guy in third or fourth week of the the season and felt like I was part of the team right away. So kind of just tried to find my role there. Uh my rookie year was definitely more of an off-ball role, and I was happy to do that, and yeah, that's something that I always attribute to my tastes at Merrimack. And would not um take that from me or expect it from me because I was very ball dominant at Merrimack. But I I know I touched on the coaching there, but every day in practice I was playing off ball and I was trying different things. So it was cool to be able to develop that style of game in practice when I didn't even realize that I'd need it as much as I did. And I certainly utilized it in UVA and and expanded on that. Of course, Sean Kerwin is is a great coach at at Virginia. So I was able to kind of utilize all those tools that I took from different programs and bring it into my first year at the Redwoods.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Wow. That's what a story, man. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah, you and then you really, I think, came into your own, your second season at PL. I I just want to touch on something also before I ask you about that. You say that you've always kind of been in good teams and they've welcomed you in. But one of the quotes I saw uh from the UVA coach that basically said, When you came in as a transfer, that's not always easy, but you made it seamless by your work ethic and your commitment to the team. So I would say, based on what you did at Merrimack, based on UVA and how you fit in with the Redwoods, that's partly on you, too, your personality and how you try to, like you just said, your first year, you were playing off ball. What do I do? What value can I bring to the team? And trying to, instead of saying, I'm I'm the ball dominant guy the first year, now your second year in the Redwoods, you certainly were playing a lot more on ball uh dominant in shooting.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's it's easy to say, but it it really means a lot for a guy to come into a team and and just try to be as coachable as they can. The the biggest thing you can do is listen to other guys, try to help your teammates as much as they can because you know that's what they appreciate, and if you can help them be better, at the end of the day, that's gonna help you be better. But you also got to have that confidence that you know how you can play and where you can attribute to a team. And that's another thing that I I would point to division two over the possibly going to division one is getting confidence in yourself. And one of the biggest things that changed from my first year to second year is having that confidence. I'd played a year of indoor and kind of got a chip on my shoulder a little bit, realized that I was able to play in a whole different league and a game that I never really played before, and able to fit in and play against guys that I had never even heard of that you hear of within the first minute of the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Yeah, yeah. So what's it like? What's it like playing with like Miles and Sergio and guys like that in the midfield? I mean, these guys are phenomenal guys, and you're right there with them. What's it like playing with those guys?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yeah, it's it's uh it's crazy because if you look at our so many guys that have these these great histories of in lacrosse and and they've they're proven players and establish themselves in the league. So coming in is certainly a little intimidating your freshman year, but then see then you realize they're all good guys off the field and you all gonna walk and play with them. So it's pretty cool being alongside alongside those guys. And I'd be remiss not to mention Jules Handenberg.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Certainly Rob Pennell at X is our quarterback, but you got you got Garnsey, Kavanaugh. I mean, there's some of that that can be crazy.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

It's crazy. I I love all those players. They're all like great players. I like watch them all through college and stuff. It's just must be great. It's like an all-star team. Like every team is like an all-star team in the BLL. That's why I love watching it so much.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

It's crazy the uh amount of talent that's on each roster. You look across and first team All Americans, Torridon winners, national champions. And and the talent is pretty impressive right now with only eight teams. So I'm hoping that they they grow in the future just because there's a lot of guys out there that deserve to be on the roster that are kind of on that 19, 20 man spot. So it's uh going to be interesting to see where the league goes.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Without a doubt, you the just the lineup that you and Danny talked about. I'm surprised. Unbelievable have not won yet. So are you gonna make a prediction for us and say you guys are gonna win it all next year?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

It's always the mentality, right? There you go. It's better. It's better.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Well, no, no, you touched on it quickly, and we didn't talk about it in the intro, but you also play in the NLL professionally box league. Did you play it box at all before you got there and played for Rochester before you got traded?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Never played serious box. I played some pickup in the upstate New York Syracuse area, but a lot of times you got field goalies sitting in the box net and guys shooting shooting alley shots and playing very field style. So it's tough once you once you go over to the actual box format, but then you're also playing at the highest level. It was a a very steep learning career at first. It was pretty frustrating trying to find my first goal of training camp. There's it's tough to score on those goalies, but I uh I had a lot of help and and again a great coaching staff. So Dan Carey was our GM there and and he was great in providing the coaches with the tools they needed to help me be successful and and kind of translate the field skills into a box environment.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

And now you're going to Las Vegas, they're an expansion team, am I correct? Yes. So how do you feel about that? Well that that's got to be a little bit exciting in in and of itself.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah, absolutely. I think I think it's gonna be a good team to start to. Obviously, you've got to prove yourself, and it's gonna be interesting at training camp to see how it plays out. But I I think the guys are really excited about it, and sounds like we have uh pretty good backing from not only our coaches, I've heard great things about Sean Williams. I haven't met him yet, but I'm excited to meet him. But also our ownership group, it sounds like they're gonna definitely try to take care of us and make sure that we need what what we need to be successful. So it's gonna be very cool playing in in that city. And you see the things that they did with the Golden Knights their first year, and now they got the Raiders there too. So there's definitely some more sports come to that city.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah, that that sounds really cool. It's definitely the up-and-coming city for professional sports, uh, both on the the women's and the men's side. And you answered one of my major questions when you I was gonna ask you, you know, what lessons did you learn playing at Merrimack at the D2 level? And you you hit the nail on the head with the things you said about you know, all the things you talked about, uh, how it helped you not only at Virginia, but to hone your skills, give you that confidence, learn to play and get that time in there. So that was just phenomenal. And and to be honest, we can't thank you enough for coming on, Charlie. It's just been a lot of fun. I know it was tough trying to get you on a on a certain schedule, and I and I appreciate you working with me to to uh fit you in here. It's just been awesome.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you guys having me on. Charlie, you were a great guest tonight. It was really exciting for me to have you on. I've been like I said, I've been watching you play for a long time. I really enjoy watching you play. And again, that shot, that that was just a sick shot, dude. I I I can't get over it. It was it was awesome, man. I love that kind of stuff. Again, Kevin and I never played, but if I played, I'd be a MIDI. I'd be a MIDI for sure. There you go. I love it. It's been a justice. Charlie Bertrand, appreciate it, man. Yeah, thank you guys.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Danny, was that a great bonus episode of a professional player coming on?

SPEAKER_02 26:07

I'm blown away. Charlie Bertrand, like I said, Kevin, I've been watching him play for a long time, for you know, for a long time, and just to have him come on the show, and he was just great. And just his journey and another Division II success story, man. You know, with a i it is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

You talked about it, we talked a little bit off uh off podcast when you said, you know, he goes at Merrimack, Merrimack, great program, all American with them, top player for their team. And then he decides to go to Virginia, which is the pinnacle of D1. And how is he gonna fit in? Is he gonna get playing time? And yet he adds into that team seamlessly and helps them win a championship.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Oh, a hundred percent. You know, I think you know, his time at Merrimack playing in the top-notch school and top-notch lacrosse and in Division II, he even admitted it it helped him. You know, he threw his name out in the portal, he had an extra year. You know what? He threw his name in the portal, and Virginia came a knock in. And you know what? Who wouldn't want to play for Lars Tiffany? Who wouldn't want to play for him? Who wouldn't want to play? And you know what? And he made a great choice. And Kevin, that's a big step, you know. Yes, Mary Mack moved up to Division I while Charlie was there. And, you know, they they had their struggles their first year a little bit, you know, at moving into that division one.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

But you can expect, and it was also a COVID year, make the COVID year, so it ended quickly, but right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

But you know, you're talking about all right, putting my name in the portal and seeing what happens, and then Virginia comes knocking, and then you go in ahead and win another another national championship. So what a great story with Charlie, huh?

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Yeah, and then he goes to the PLL and he incrementally shows his worth to the Redwoods. It's just it's just amazing, and I think that's a real testament to him and what he got out of going to Merrimack, a D2 school, which, oh, by the way, was the only offer he got.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Amazing. That's that's unbelievable to me. But you know what? There are those diamonds in the rough and those guys that that that fall through the cracks sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

And we say that all the time. And and I think he said it so well. You can go D1 and maybe get playing time, or if you're at that level, if you're right between that D1 and D2 level and you go D2, you probably have a better shot of making the field and contributing. We talk about all the time, and and it was great to see that Charlie kind of uh actually validated two knuckleheads that never played and never coached.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Yeah, he was a great guest. I'm I'm so happy that he came on. And again, like I watched him play for a long time and I love watching him play, and I'm gonna continue to like watch him play. You know, even though I'm I'm a I'm a water dogs fan. Because I I don't know, just I went to the high school, it was the Bulldogs. My son went to college at the Bulldogs, and I don't know. I just got a thing for Bulldogs.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

I'm a Water Dogs fan too, also because they it's kind of a nautical Navy theme, right? You know, water. Sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

And it yeah, it's exactly true. But you know what? He plays for the Redwoods, plays with great players with Sergio Petri, Mr. Miles Jones and Jules Hennenberg and Gonzi and Rob Pinnell. So we'll just be able to do it. What a crew to hang out with, huh? Without it. I bet you they have a lot of fun together. Charlie Bertrand was a really good guest.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Yeah, I'm sure they have fun, but they can't have as much fun as you and I have together. And so, people, if you like this podcast, share it with your friends. Follow us on Instagram, follow us on Facebook, In The Crease D2 Lacks on Instagram at In the Creased with Danny and Kevin on Facebook. Keep your suggestions going. What's coming up next are a few episodes on the coaching changes in D2 before we get in our conference previews, which are always fun, Danny.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Seasons right around the corner, Kev, right around the corner. Fall balls in session. You know, some of these teams are they're having some scrimmages already. There's some scrimmages set up. You got alumni games coming up and some fall ball schedules coming up. So, you know, kids are practicing. They're they're out there, they're lifting, they're running, they're out there with their sticks. So we're in, we're in, you know, fall lacrosse season, full full boat, and I'm excited to get going.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Without a doubt, without a doubt. So with that, Danny, for tonight, that's a wrap. That's a wrap. Go ahead.