Our DII Preseason Top 20!!

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of In the Crease with Danny and Kevin, a coast-to-coast discussion of D2 Men's lacrosse. I'm your co-host, Kevin Stenstrom, and with me as always is the professor emeritus of D2 lacrosse, Danny Moran. How's it going, Danny?

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Kevin Stenstrom, how you doing out there in Northern Virginia this evening?

SPEAKER_00 0:38

I'm doing really well. I'm doing really well. You know, I I had to use that intro because, you know, it takes some studious thinking to do a top 20, like we're going to bring out right now in a few minutes.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

And so I kind of consider you, you know, kind of the top of the of the heap there, Professor Emeritus.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

This is a lot of fun, man, because we're not any, we don't have anything to do with rankings or we don't get a vote. We don't we don't get to count the algorithms. It's just two knuckleheads who never played the game going back and forth seeing who they think this year's top 20 are.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

So exactly, exactly. And I like to point out before we get going into it, Danny, that just as we talked with Coach Barrett last year, this is for fun. This is preseason. This is for the the parents, the families, the for recruiting. No one's going to use our stuff for recruiting, that's for sure. But my point is, coaches can get upset with us if they want, but what do we really know anyway? This is a tough thing to do. It's a lot of fun for me to try to put it together. I'm sure you had fun doing yours.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

But yeah, I had a lot of fun. And I expect some thoughts to get thrown our way for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Without a doubt. I mean, I'll I'll be honest right now. I probably have I had like about eight teams that I had like going back and forth of whether they were in the top 20 or not that aren't in the top 20. You know what I'm saying? Like they were right at the right, they could have been 17, 18, 19, 20. Like 10 teams I was going back and forth. Some some would come in, some would come out. It was it was nerve-wracking.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Yeah, it's hard to it's hard. You kind of look at their schedules, you look at their players, you know, who's coming back, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Who are they playing this year? How did they do last year, even though they had different players? Like that's how some some of my teams that are on there ended up higher than if you look at what they're doing. Maybe it is because you can't count them out sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Yeah, and you know what's uh uh something else that's kind of cool is that now that Lindenwood and Queens are no longer in Division II, and both of them were ranked at the end of the season last year, that opens up two spots in the rankings for some of these dudes who've never been ranked before to really start knocking on the door and getting into that top 20, which you know, they all want to get into that top 20 because that helps so much in recruiting and right and and just you know, it gets eyes open and saying, wow, these guys play quality lacrosse. I don't have my belt. But they do, you know, and and these teams that we're gonna go through tonight are no different. But this is a one uh one of my favorite podcasts when we go back and forth, and because you know, you and I have not gone over this pre- We have not.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

So we're gonna hear you have your list in mind, and I I can tell you I I uh I think I mixed it up a little bit, and I don't I know we're not gonna have the same, even in the top five, they're not gonna go boom, boom, boom, boom. So you ready to get started? Yeah, yeah. Let's rock. All right. I think we both have the same number one based on some discussions we've had on the conference preview. So who did you have at number one?

SPEAKER_02 3:50

I have the Tampa Spartans, Kev. With with that powerhouse coming back with you know, Beto and Ulmer and Kulkowski and and and Luke McAnini and Danny Fitzpatrick, and the list just goes on. They're they're gonna be tough to beat, they're stacked from top to bottom, and they're my preseason number one team, Tampa Spartans.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yeah, mine too. I don't have anything to add to that. Uh, I I you I think last year you and I both had probably uh Lemoyne number one uh when we did it, and you because you can't knock them off until until you can. And they and and Tampa's coming back stack, so totally agree. So here's where I will tell you right now, my my top 20 differs a lot from USA lacrosse. And here's number number two is the first one where mine differs. They had mercy. I have Lenore Ryan as number two, and I'll tell you why. I have Lenore number two because they're stacked on offense and they pulled in some key transfers to fill some of the gaps that they have at midfield and goalie. And I think Coach Paradine always has the has those guys ready to go. They're they're formidable every year, and I I put them at number two.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Well, here's the first set of darts coming at us, okay? As as good, as good as Mercy is, and they're very good, they're very good, and they got a lot of you know, all Americans coming back. They got a good number of players coming back, they're gonna be a very good team. But Kevin, I agree with you. I have LR as number two. You do, I do. I think that's interesting. You know, that they're that good. They're that good. I just think they're stacks from top to bottom, they're athletic, they're physical. I think they've been knocking at the door really for a couple of years now. You know, they've been really, really close to really knocking on that door. And I think this is a year where they have a chance to do that. So right now, I have I, along with you, have LR as number two. The Mercy Mav fans are gonna be mad at us. They are they are.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Who do you have as number three then?

SPEAKER_02 6:10

I have the Wingate Bulldogs.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Okay, now number three. So uh I don't. So give me your reasoning there.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

I think that this team that Wingate has this year is poised to make a run at a national championship. I think they're that good. They're deep at midfield, they're stacked. Danny Riley, all first team All-American. You got Willie Grico, first team All-American. You had a young, young defense that was top 10 in the league last year. They're coming all coming back.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

They're not all coming back, though. They're not all coming back. So I actually just to be spoiler alert here, I have Wingate as number five, and we'll get to it that end. But so, but I will tell you, my number, my probably my top, I don't know, top five, six, seven in my mind, all have a shot at the national championship. So I'm not it's just that close, but I didn't have Wingate at three. I had Mercy at three.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

I think they're I think Wingate's big, strong, fast, athletic. I think they have all the ingredients, Kevin. Remember, we talk about ingredients? Yep. I just I just think they have all the ingredients this year, and I just I don't know, call it a gut instinct, you can you could say. I just like this team the way they look right now.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

So I had Mercy as number three, and I said it mainly because of what you talked about when you said the the darts are gonna fly immediately. They are loaded, they are loaded. Why did not have them as number two? I think a new coach coming in late, like and no fault to the coach or or to mercy. They were trying to get him in. There's just a lot of things going on, a lot of dynamics, especially when you're coming from Canada. I think that just puts them a half a step behind. I think they're senior enough with all those guys coming back that maybe that held them, you know, they were able to do things on their own and move forward. They had coaches anyway, coaches that have been there. So I think I have them at number three because of that.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Okay, and and I completely understand that. I have mercy at four. So we just have those flip-flop kind of thing. Now, now I have, yeah, go ahead. Now, I I love Mercy's team. I love their team. They're I like the way they play, they're brand of ball, they're defensive, they're physical, they got a mono coming back in goal, which is huge, yeah, huge. So um I like you question how well uh the coaching because Jordan Levine is a great coach. He's a great coach. And with him not being there, would this younger coach make the same uh uh adjustments, make the same plays, do the same type of things, or is he gonna let them play free and loose? I don't know. So we're gonna have to see, but that's the only reason why I have mercy at four. Gotcha. Yeah, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Okay, so my number four, and I will tell you, probably four and five, I went back and forth. So I have Mercy Hearst at number four. And the reason why is if I look at them and wingate, who I have at five, Mercyhurst also is bringing the top three scores back. Guys like Landonmore. So their D-starters and goalie are returning as well. My difference with Mercyhurst and Wingate is a couple of their D-starters where they had that rotation at at uh close D, have left. Now that that may not be a hindrance, but they lost some of their season depth, even though they were young last year. They lost a couple of those. Goalie, although now they I think the goalie Capone was there last year. So you're talking about Wingate now. Yeah, wingate is number five. So that's what I'm saying. That that's my difference between I I have my questions more on on defense for Wingate right now, preseason, than Mercy Hurst on paper.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Let me tell you something. That Kid Conley is a beast, man. You know, he's a beast, and you got Natalie too, like in midfield on the defensive side. These guys are talking more close. They can go both ways at Wingate, but I'm talking close D. They're gonna be a good team. You mock my words. So you got Mercy Hurst at four. Yeah, and Wingate is five. Okay. Interesting. I think Mercy Hurst is a great team with you know, those guys coming back, and they got Sean Duran at the at the face-off, which is that's that that gets very good. So they're gonna be a force to be with, but I don't even have mercy. I don't have mercy hearst in my top five, though. So who's your fifth? Who's number five? My fifth is a delphi. I got a delphi at five.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Okay, okay. Now I had a delphi at six, and let me tell you why. I mean, it was it was once again, it was close. Talking to um Coach Purdy and and seeing that there's a little bit of change in defense for them as well, and having to rebuild there a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

I mean, they did the same thing last year, though. But last year they were all new defenders, the whole team was practically the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

I mean, the LSM was there, they had some defenders that were there.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

So that's it. That's it. That's so are you yelling?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Are you yelling me right now, Danny? Are you telling me I'm wrong?

SPEAKER_02 11:43

I'm telling I'm just I'm just all right.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

So you had a so a Delphi at five for you.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Yeah, Delphi at five. They're they're they're good, man. And they're deep, and they have a lot of big boys coming back, and and Dylan Renner and goal, which I think when you got a big time goalie and he comes back, that's big for a team. I think that's says a lot.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, so we're only off by one shot, one one position. You're five with Delphi, I'm six with a Delphi. So who do you have at six then?

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Mercyhurst.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

So there you go. If you look at our top six, they're the same top six.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

But you know what? When you think about it, like when you really get to the core of things, Mercy Hurst, they arguably our top five team. I have them at six.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

I mean, yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what can make this job doing this by just numbering them one after another. You can say, All right, my top six are these. I can't number them before yeah, you know, that's the way I feel sometimes. You know, I I agree with you. I could go, I could interchange. I I think the way I would do it is I would have the the top three Tampa, LR, and Mercy. To me, that's to me, and then I'd have Mercy Hearst Wingate and Alpha, you could change interchange them to me. Now you'd probably be a little bit different, you'd probably have Wingate up there at three, and then your next three would be interchangeable.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

So I don't know, man. I think Mercy is a good team. I I don't know if I moved them out of the fourth spot. I can't see them being any lower than four to me.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Yeah, that's why I had them at three. That's that's what I'm saying. 100% but totally get it. But our top six, it's funny, are the same. So who do you have at seven? So I have you, Indy. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

So do I. So do I. You don't. I do, but USA has LR at seven.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

I know. That's why I I differ so much from what USA Lacrosse has. Um, what the hell are they talking about? I mean, now they have Undie at eight, but I I don't see where they get Lenore Ryan at seven. And I think Undy, once again, all these teams are stacked, and U Indy's bringing back a lot of players. They are all they are always consistent. What'd they end up in the in the final poll for USILA last year? Eight. Eight. So I think Undy seven.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Yeah, I got them at seven too. They got a lot of guys coming back. They're well coast, they're very athletic, they have a great schedule. They play big boys, then they're not afraid to mix it up with the big dogs because they're a big dog themselves, and they're coming out of the Midwest, and I like them at number seven. So you and I agree on that one. Okay, so who do you have at eight? I have the limestone Saints at eight.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Okay. This is where we differ. I have limestone kind of a little bit farther down, and I've went gone back and forth on this uh, but I have St. Anselm at eight. Really? Yeah. That's a good pick. I I I I did that. I I look if if I look at Limestone, I think once again they they are gonna be in there, but they've got a lot of turnover, a lot of key players from what they had last year, not there. Whereas at St. Anselm, top of the six, eight of their top six of eight scores are returning, as well as their close D. So that's why I put them at eight.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

I have St. A's at nine. I have Lemoyne at nine. And and USA preseason has St. A's at ten. And they have Lemoyne at nine.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yeah, I I agree with them on the nine. Um I don't know. I think it was this was Le Moyne was a tough one for me, Danny, because I could easily have them outside the top ten, in the sense that I think they've got a lot to replace on both sides of the field, but I just can't discount Coach Shean. I can't. I can't. I totally get it. When was the last time they weren't in the top 10?

SPEAKER_02 15:59

I can't remember. No, I I can't remember. If I not that I know, they've always been in the top ten.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah. That I can that I can last year they ended up at the end of the rankings of May 9th, they were fourth. Yeah and they lost last year. They didn't lose a lot, they lost three games, but you know, I just I couldn't.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Yeah, two to a dealt two to a Delphi, and then they beat a Delphi at the end to get to the H double A.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

That's what I went kept on going back at. It's like in the end, they got into the NCAAs and and beat the team. So I'm like, they're too well coached, their systems so mature. I had to put them at nine.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Yeah, I have them at 10. So I had them get them in my top 10. I have them at 10, but I have Saint A's ahead of them, and I have Longstone ahead of them.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Okay, so who do you have at 10? You have you have Lemoyne at 10. Right. I have I have Seaton Hill at 10. Good pick. I'll I'll tell you why I put Seaton Hill at 10. Yeah, they're they have some turnover, but they've got a lot of players coming back that saw minutes last year. They saw minutes last year. They had like seven attackmen that they were rotating. I think that will drop down a little bit, but they all had serious minutes. And their midis are turning. They got an all-American short stick D MIDI coming back. And if I look at their progression last year, where they were almost out of it, they were out of the top 20 at one point. And how they came back, once again, I go back to that coaching with Coach Novotny. I you can't discount them. I could not take them out of my top 10.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

So that's why I didn't seat Coach Novotney is a great coach, and he does great things with the Griffiths at Seton Hill. He's amazing, but I have him at 12, Kev, right now.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Okay, that's where I had limestone. Okay, little little uh little foreshadowing there, but let's get to 11. Who do you have at 11?

SPEAKER_02 17:53

I'm gonna surprise you right now. Rollins. That's who I had. I got Rollins at 11. I think I think they're gonna be the surprise team in the Sunshine State novel.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

They are loaded. Not only do they bring back a lot of players, but if you look at the transfers they're bringing in.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Yeah, they're bringing in some studs, man. They're bringing in some studs. If they get chemistry.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

I could have had them in the the only reason I didn't put them in the top 10 was it's probably on me. It's a bias of where they'd been in the in the past, and that's not the way to treat them. But I'll go back to I went back, like we said in the last episode, Danny. I went back and looked at my uh my preseason last year. And actually, we were pretty solid, except for one team. Which one? Tampa. Yeah, well. Tampa had it number 10 last year on my list. So I have to eat crow on that one again. But and so Rollins could be the same thing this year.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yeah, they're really good. They're gonna be good. I think they're gonna be one of the bigger surprise teams in all of Division II this year.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

I I'm with you 100%.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

That's my prediction. I think Rollins is gonna be a pretty, pretty tough team. All right, so I have them at I have them. And you have them at 11.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

I have Seaton Hill at 12. And I have limestone at 12. And and so I have limestone that far back out of the top 10, wow, mainly because of their key offensive and defensive players that they they lost from last year, and that's the only reason. Do I it would not shock me at all? End of the season, they're in the top five. It wouldn't even shock me for that. I mean, I just think that I I I just looked at it, and it was more of like comparing them to what I saw with the other teams ahead of them were bringing back. That was kind of my my measuring stick. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Yep, I get it, I get it. And they got a tough schedule too. They play anybody who wants to play them. Yeah, uh, you know, they're just Coach Storier, he's a good coach, great recruiter. They might have a little bit of a different look this year, different faces out there, yeah different faces out there. Um but I understand you have them at 12. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

So once again, if you look at our top 12 now, we have the same uh teams in the top 12, they're just different rankings. Yeah, a couple of different spots, yeah, a couple of different things.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

So who do you got at 13? I have pace. You're not gonna believe this, Kev. I have the pace setters at 13 as well. That's unbelievable. Yeah, and then USA Pre has him at 11. They're a great team, they're a great team. Coach Mariano, he's great, man. I just uh I saw I saw a little post. I love talking to him. I saw a little post that he shot out at uh US lacrosse magazine the other night. It was pretty funny.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah, he's he's well, and I'll tell you what, think of the players he's bringing back. Yeah, including one of our favorites in gold, the big brown. Oh ghoul. I mean, they're they are solid through and through.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Listen, I definitely could see Pace cracking that top 10 pretty quickly. Oh, yeah, yeah. They're good, they're good, yeah. And they play in any 10, tough, you know, blue collar, like we talk about all the time, cold weather in the beginning. Those guys are tough, man.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

So well, that's the way that's the way Coach Mariano is, too.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah, just his demeanor. Yeah, he's great, man. You had to get you had to see the post. I was so I was laughing my tail off when I saw the post. I was like, you go get him, Tommy. But uh yeah, pace pace at 13. I I think that's a good call. But like I said, Kev, I could see them cracking the top 10 pretty quickly if they get on a roll. Without a doubt. Okay, who do you have? At 14. At 14, I'm gonna surprise everybody. I got the Newberry Wolves at 14.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Ah, I don't. I have Florida Southern in there. Makes sense. Florida Southern. Newberry is one of those teams that went up and down from about that spot in around 15 and down for me, in and out with other teams as I kept on looking at it. I put Florida Southern in there for me, and then I'll get you to talk to Newberry Wolves because I think that's important. Although they lose Jeff Atlas and Kevin Horowitz, which I think is even the bigger loss. And that's just why I put him in there.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

I don't know. I think losing Horowitz is a biggie, man.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

That kid was well, I actually had him a little bit higher and I had to drop him down. I think you're right. I think losing Horowitz is a is a and you know maybe that kid was very good at the face-off last year. Yeah, I just look at their other I just look at their other pieces, including their their goalie coming back and then some of their their shooters.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

And and with the way the Sunshine State conference played as a whole last year, I think, you know, algorithm-wise, that conference when they play each other, a lot of numbers go up because they're such strong teams. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. So so okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

So talk to me about Newberry.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

I just think Newberry is poised. You know, they've been kind of really up and coming the last three years. And I think Coach Nick Collard does a really good job there. And I think they got players, they play in the sack, they play a tough schedule, man. There's a listen, Kevin, I don't care what anybody says. I I think the sack top to bottom is the best conference in Division II. That's just my opinion. I think if you take the middle of the road sack teams and put them against the middle of the road, any other conference, those middle of the road sack teams would win. That's just my opinion. And you know, nobody talks about teams like Newberry, but man, those boys can play.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

No, I I totally agree with you. And that's what I said when I put this list together. When we get to like 15 to 20, I probably have more than 10 teams I go in and out with. In and out. Where where should they go? Who should and and it's it's all art at this point for being real science. Who do you have at 14? 14 is Florida Southern. Oh, Florida Southern. That's right. That's right. Okay. And at 15, I may surprise you. I have Colorado Mesa.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

That is surprising. I have Florida Tech at 15. Florida Tech was one of the ones on my uh that just didn't make it in. Oh, really? Yeah. Now I I now once again, I go back. The same thing. I'll I'll talk Colorado Mesa and then you talk Florida Tech, okay? Go ahead. Colorado Mesa, they are loaded. Loaded. Loaded on offense. Everyone's coming back, defense, and they've got Dylan Checkett's face off. Now I put him up pretty high. And I and so that's uh I'm probably playing a little bit of uh you know risk in that from from based on them being in the RMAC because now they've got to do well on their out of conference uh to really get that kind of ranking. But I think I think they are I think they're poised this year. Now that the the problem is they do have a new uh head coach, but he was the assistant. So I I just said I just looked at what what they had in their roster coming back, and I'm like, they're better this year, I think, than last year. Very well could be. I don't even have them in my top 20, Kevin. So there we go. So I didn't have Florida Tech, and you didn't have Colorado Mesa. So talk to me about Florida Tech.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

I just think um, again, talking about that Sunshine State conference, those teams bode well in the algorithms, okay? And of Division II, in order to get these rankings, they need to play strong teams, and within conference, they're all very strong. Florida Tech almost beat Tampa last year. Yep, yep. And and and they uh lost a couple of very close games. They were competitive in every single game that they played.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

100%, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

And they might have been my surprise. Like I was surprised at Florida Tech. I just kept coming back last year, going, wow. They kept they just keep winning, they keep winning, they keep winning. They just kept climbing up the charts, climbing up the charts last year.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

We talked about that.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Yeah, most of their players are coming back.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

They lose a lot of their key defensive players, a lot of them, like five of them. And that's why I I just couldn't I couldn't pull the trigger on. That was my only reason. Understood. I get it. So yeah. I I so who do you have at 16? At 16? I have Belmont Abbey. Okay, I have Belmont Abbey in my top 20, but not there. I have another surprise for you. Lewis. That's that's not a bad pick, Kev. That's not a bad pick. This I'm probably going a little bit on the limb there, putting them all the way up at 16 versus having them at 20. Once again, I looked at what they did last year. They they shocked some people, beating Seton Hill. Got in the rankings, got out of the rankings. You know, I think they played about 500 in conference, but they're coming back. Same guys. Think Lewis could beat Colorado Mesa? I think they could. I think they could. I think that would be a great game to watch. I think that would be an unbelievable game to watch.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Yeah, that would be a good game. I like that pick, Lewis. I you know what? I like it. I like it. Unfortunately, I don't have Lewis in my top 20 either. But I could see them if they go on a quick roll and they start to win some good big games. I could see them cracking the top 20, Kevin. Easily, easily. I could definitely see that.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Yeah, and I I like I like your pick at 16 with Bell Belmont Abbey. I think that's that's uh how can you count Belmont Abbey out?

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Well, last year was one of those down years for Belmont Abbey. Just you know, they don't come very often for Coach Barrett. He's his teams are really, really good. Um, he knows how to recruit. He gets players to come there, and I just think that this year they're gonna they're like last year, again, they were a little bit on the downside. I think they're coming back.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

So the one thing I had them at 18, not 16. And the reason why is talking to Coach Barrett on the phone, which I got to do because you were busy that Sunday, and I got to just do it myself, which was a lot of fun because he was so gracious of his time, talked to me for about an hour, and he basically said, you know, they basically have to reload on offense, they low lose some all Americans there, and I think I I think it's gonna be like last year. They're going to struggle a little bit in those first few games as they get their chemistry together until they find their stride, until they find their stride, and then you look at it. I I think they're gonna be in the Conference Carolina Tournament Championship. And it depends on what they do in their final games, in their other games, what their final record is, how they if they get into the NCAs or not.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

So Belmont Abbey is one of those teams that you just don't want to play, you know, like uh Crusaders coming in, you know, they're coming into town. Yeah, and you know, they put well they're they're physical, they're athletic, they play the game the right way, Belmont Abbey. Let me tell you something. I think Coach Barrett has done a great job there for a very long period of time. Yep, yep, year into year.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

And you can't like we talked about with you, I couldn't count Lemoyne out of the top 10. I can't count Mel Belmont Abbey out of the top 20. Cannot do it.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

I agree with you. I agree with you. I agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

So who do you have at 17?

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Gonna be another surprise for you. Wilmington. That's who I have at 17. Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Oh my god. That's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. That's funny. Yeah, loaded on offense. Loaded on offense. They got a few questions on defense, but they were almost there last year.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Yeah, they were pretty good last year. They were putting it together. You could see they were putting it together.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

They have the I think if they won their their conference tournament game, they may have gone to the NCAA tournament. Yeah, they were right there, weren't they? They were right there on the edge. They're good. They're good. Okay, so you know who I had at 18, Belmont Abbey. Who do you have? I have that's where I have Florida Southern.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

I have Florida Southern at 18.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Okay. I and I can see that without a doubt. Like I said, I have them a lot. I have up at 14, but I can I can see that. So uh and who you just think you think it's mainly because of losing their Horowitz at face-off that it you that's a huge too much of a question mark right now.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Yeah, you know, when you're winning 70% of the face-offs, Kev, you know, it makes for a good attitude. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

It's like when you lose, it's like when we talk to him and we talked to the coach at Anderson, it's like when Cam Weeks loses a face-off. Like, what how did that happen? The same thing with Howitz. How'd he lose that?

SPEAKER_01 31:32

He never loses.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yeah. Anderson's a team that's like knocking on that top 20 door, too, man. They're like staying by right outside, they're right outside the door. Uh oh.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Staying by. All right. So yeah, I had 18, uh, Belmont Abbey, you had Florida Southern. Right. Here's who I had at 19. Frosburg State. Hmm. Interesting. Tell us why. I I think last year was a down year for them.

unknown 32:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

I had them in my top 20 last year, and they weren't in there at the end. I think they're loaded with returning players. I really like our coach. I think he's gonna have them ready. I just think that they I think they're gonna have a much better year. This is a gut feeling. I think they're gonna have a much better year based on who they're bringing back. And I I had to put him in my top 20. I put him at 19.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Yeah, I like Frostburg as well, but I don't I don't have him in my top 20, Cove.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yeah, so who well, like I like I said, this is where I get to. There's a whole list of other possibilities. Go in there. Who do you have at 19?

SPEAKER_02 32:44

I have Chestnut Hill.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Not uh I have them. I actually do not have Chestnut Hill in my top 20, but I have them in one of my my I had him in there, took him out, changed it around. I kept on going back and forth on who they're bringing back. New coach, he'd been there before, assistant coach, a lot of consistency across. I I I just I didn't have but I I can definitely see that. I can see that.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Yeah, you know, they're they're a good squad, Kevin. They can knock off, they have a full array of beasts on that team that can play on both offense and the defensive side of the ball. They're well coached, they're really athletic, they play in a tough conference. You know what? I just think I just think that this might be a year where you see Chestnut Hill really kind of do something.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah, I think it's interesting. You have two CHTC schools in your top 20 with Wilmington and Chestnut Hill. Yeah, and they go out with each other. I think, yeah, they do. And I think there's other teams in that conference that are gonna start to compete more. I think there's those two are still at the top, but yeah, I can see where why though you have them in there without a doubt. Like I said, I my list of teams, Florida Tech being one of them that didn't make into my list, Chestnut Hill is another one. Um, who do you have at 20? Who is your 20th pick?

SPEAKER_02 34:08

All right, this was tough, okay? This was the hardest one, I think. Yeah, because there's I feel that there's like four or five teams that are deserving of ranking that aren't in there. Um I have Bentley at 20. Okay, I can see that. I can see that. Well, I I went back and forth with Bentley, Lewis, and Anderson.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

I think I have Anderson at 20.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

I think all three of those teams are very good and much like each other. I would love to see those teams play each other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

I I did not have Bentley. I I wouldn't be shocked if they climbed the ladder quickly as well. Depends how they do. I I looked at uh some folks that they're losing and I said, I just don't know. I I don't know. And so I put in Anderson, I'm telling you, some other teams I I thought of were North Greenville, Lander, Newberry, like we talked about, you know, Florida Tech. I mean, I mean, don't listen, Barton, Rockhurst, there's a lot that could be right knocking on that door, Merryville. There's tons of teams, and then you look at the Peach Belt beyond Lander. If you talk about Lander, they weren't even number uh one or two by then. This, you know, the it's it's Uah and Mamavalo.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

So I know, I know that's how crazy it is. I know. And there's the I'm telling you, Anderson, like I said, I believe that you know, if there was a top 25, then Anderson would be in the top 25.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yeah, I just I had them in my my 20. Like you said, they're knocking on the door. I looked once again, most of their players returning, they're not losing much. I think Sam Weeks stays healthy and isn't injured. Right. That could be yeah, that could be the difference. I think I'm tipping my scales that way. USA lacrosse had Bentley at 14.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Yeah. I know. Had Newberry at 18.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Uh and it's like weird, man. It had Belmont at 13. Right. Had had pace at 11. So it's crazy, man. I it's hard, it's so hard to figure out. But at least you and I have the first top five.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

We have the first top 12, the same teams in the top 12. In different order, or 13, because we both had pace, but in different order. The top 13 teams are the same, just in different order.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Yep. And you can remember Lindenwood and and Queens aren't in the uh mix anymore. So that opens it up for teams like Wilmington and well, not even that. Wilmington was knocking on the door for an NCAA last year, and you know what? USA lacrosse didn't even put them on that list. That shocked me. How do you not get a team like that? I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

I don't know how they do it. So so all I'd say is the teams I rattled off that I didn't get my top 20, make me eat crowed. I'd love it. Nothing more. See you guys. I mean, it's I that's gonna be so fantastic about this season. Think of all the teams that are gonna be competitive, and even the teams that wouldn't even consider for the top 20 that we've talked about in the conference previews, Danny, that are looks like they're improving this year.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

When I look at that top 10 list, okay, so you got Tampa, LR, Mercy, Wingate, Adelphi, Mercyhurst, Limestone, St. A's, and Lemoyne. Oh my lord.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Just it, they're all top-notch quality lacrosse teams. All of them.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

So it could come down to one injury, one kid getting hurt, coming off the field, not being able to, you know, perform, and that could hurt him in a certain way and hurt a team, or you get a team that just gets on a roll and they're firing on all the cylinders, and that confidence gets up, and they start rocking. And you know, when a team is confident, you know, they're hard to beat. The only thing, again, again, the only thing that bothers me a little bit is the Delphi schedule.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

From their out of conference.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Yeah, I just would love to see them put a big dog on there. I think it's important, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Well, they gotta run the table on that. I mean, that's kind of the the the uh I think the note there. They've got to run the table on that, and they'll be fine. Maybe they can lose one, but I think they I just think they have a favorable schedule. That's you know, just my opinion. I agree with you. I agree with you as we talked about it last week in the conference preview. So, but I tell you what, Danny, I like your top 20. I like yours too. Uh, just a little warning or caution to all the coaches. We don't know what the hell we're talking about. We just have fun doing it. Yeah, no, it's been fun.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

They'll they'll be laughing at us, figuring out. Oh, yeah, you know what? But you know what? We're pretty close, Kev. We're pretty close.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Um, I was actually surprised at how close we were.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

You know what? I think I don't know how many people in the country are digging in like you and I, digging in uh and finding out who's coming back and doing these players and and figuring it all out. And when you sit down uh in front of the computer and you start putting names down and what their accolades were and where they were, and then you start looking at schedules and who do they have and who's on their list, and you know, like the NE 10 is going to be tough, but is it as tough as the SAC? And with the Sunshine State Conference doing what they're doing, yeah. I mean, I I I think that you have to watch out for teams in the Sunshine State Conference. I think most, at least half the teams in the SAC can make noise. And you still got the top four in in the NE 10 with you know Pace, Adelphi, Lemoyne, uh, and St. A's. Uh and then you got you know uh Mercy just dominating their conference. Uh so it's like there's some really good teams out there, U Indy doing great things, and they're gonna be tough, and they got a tough schedule too, Undy. And they'll come out east and play the big dogs, they'll play LR, they'll play Wingate, they'll play these teams.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

They don't they don't mind exactly, and uh you know, so like we saw last year with the Sunshine State, which was great to see, and a little bit of a surprise for me from if you look at what where we had them in the top 20, how strong they became as a conference in the division. I wouldn't be shocked to see like a conference like the GOBC with Maryville, Rockhurst, Lewis, and you Windy. Teams like that all start looking somewhat like the Sunshine State. I wouldn't be shocked if that happened.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Yeah, again, you know, Lewis, Maryville, they're all good squads. You know, losing Lyndonwood out there kind of takes that conference down a little bit. But still, that conference is a good conference and they they produce good teams. And they come out east too. They have to come out east to play some of the big dogs, too. So I admire that. Yeah. Hey, you know what? The season is about three weeks away. Um, the southern teams get going like February 5th, February 6th, 7th, 8th, around that that time. Uh the teams are doing uh getting those last-minute scrimmages in before the season starts. Uh the players are back at school, they are practicing hard, they are at lifts, they're doing runs, classes have begun for this semester already. It's the 2023 season, Kev. Here we are. Yeah, we've done all our season previews, we've done all our conference previews, and tonight we came up with what we think is our top 20. And you know what? I think I think our picks are just as good, if not better, than USA.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

I I want to say they're better, but I'm biased. I don't think they think what the hell they're talking about. Honestly, I I really don't. I think we met, I think I there's some things they had in theirs that nothing against the teams that are in there, they're all deserving teams, but I didn't understand where they had teams in there in certain rankings.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

So there's a couple of teams I'm interested to watch, and one of them is St. A's. Okay. I think I think that that team could really, really scare some people. And uh gonna keep a close eye on St. A's. Another team I'm gonna keep a close eye on is Rollins. I think Rollins has got a squad that can make some noise. Another team I'm gonna watch is Newberry. I just have a funny feeling about that team. Um good. I think they're gonna make some noise in the sack. And then, you know, the first the top five, you gotta watch those guys. You gotta watch them play. Yeah, I just because if you want to watch top-notch Division II, lacrosse, any of those top five teams, Tampa, LR, Wingate, Mercy, top five.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Top ten.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. You're right. I think it's top ten, Mercy, UND, Limestone, St. Ace, LeMontine. They're all loaded. They're all Americans, all Americans on both sides of the field for a lot of them. Um, Tampa's loaded with all Americans. I don't know how many. They got coming back. It's just amazing. But you know what? They're beatable. They're not unbeatable. They're not right. They can be beat. You know what? It just takes a team to go in there and knock what I what we back in the old day. We used to say knock some put some dicks in the dirt. And you know what? That's what it takes sometimes a team to get physical with a team like Tampa. You know, good teams, good teams. When I coached football, I used to tell my kids, good teams hate physical. They hate it when you're physical. They might be more talented, but they can't outwork you if you're physical. Yeah. And being physical can take a good team out. Yeah. But with Tampa, even that's going to be hardest because defensively, they're so damn physical themselves.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Well, that I I think it's going to be, I'm just so excited for this season because I think, like we just said, you look at the the top 20 and you look at the teams that weren't in some that I was had as potential in the top 20. I'm like, every one of these teams I love watching. Yeah. And I'm excited for the teams that are trying to improve. I just think it's going to be a lot of fun. So just to remind people of our in-season episode, kind of our format. We're going to stick with the same this year. If people have other ideas, we're happy to take them. But right now, we're going to do the same thing. Well, we're going to go down week and review. We're going to have a coach's spotlight. We're going to have games to watch this week. And then we're going to have a player spotlight. And that's kind of what we're going to try to do. So we'll get a coach and a player in and then we're going to talk about the games from the previous week and the ones to look for in the next week, just to get everyone prepared for each weekend.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

And just to remind the listeners, we just don't hone in on the top 20. That's tonight's episode. That was tonight's episode, our preseason top 20. But we talk about real good matchups in all conferences, out of conference matchups. It doesn't matter which team it is. I mean, we'll tell you hey, this is a good matchup. This is a good team. This is a good game to watch.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Yeah, because there's some stories. You look at, once again, you look at uh AIC and Caldwell with coaches that play together. That's those are games that are on the list just because of the stories behind them.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Or the West Virginia, who's the West Virginia champs of West Virginia. That's right. So those three teams getting after it over there.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

So and then there's Walsh and Malone.

unknown 46:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

In Canton, Ohio.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

That's right. So it's gonna be a lot of underlying stories in Division II, but again, there's a lot of great players, a lot of great coaches. Some legends are here in Division II, and they're doing great things. And um, I'm excited for the 2023 season, Kev. I have a freshman, he's ready to go, man. Like he's excited, and and uh um, I'm just I'm excited for him, I'm excited for his team, I'm excited for the season, and I'm excited to keep doing this with you, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Without a doubt. I can't wait. And so, just to all our listeners, pass the word, stay tuned, and that's a wrap. That's a wrap.