The Importance of Mental Health and the Student Athlete

Intro

SPEAKER_04 0:13

Welcome, welcome, welcome to season three of In the Crease with Danny and Kevin, a coast to coast discussion of Deep Two Men's Lacrosse. I'm your co-host, Kevin Stenstrom, and with me as always is the man with the plan, Danny Moran. Hey, Danny.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Wow, that rhymes. The man with the plan, Danny Moran. Season three. Kevin, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Season three. I know. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

How are you doing? Doing well. I'm really excited about this episode. You and I have been planning this one for a while. And we'll get into that in a minute. But first, just to let our listeners know, a little administ trivia, season three is kicking off in the summer months. And as we know, there's uh if you look at the way lacrosse goes, there's the summer season at all the high school and younger players are going to their tournaments, and it's a quick about a month time frame, and then they have time off. Well, we are probably going to have time off in this whole summer. We'll probably be doing episodes every couple weeks, so maybe we'll have two in July, a couple in August, and then we'll we'll get right back into it uh almost every week, probably in September. You and I have a bunch of episodes that we kind of have in the planning stages but haven't finalized. And that's what we're gonna go through and and have a little bit of a break in between for us with our families uh this summer. So I just wanted to point that out to everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah, Kevin, um, we deserve a little bit of a break. We've been pretty we've been hitting the hammer pretty hard. But you know what? Again, it's been a lot of fun. I've enjoyed every second of it, but I'm gonna enjoy a week or two off with my family as well. And uh hey, every couple of weeks we'll we'll pound out another another podcast, and um hopefully people keep listening. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

So to kick off season three, we have a very special episode on a topic that is gaining more traction, but really needs to be talked about a lot more.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Oh, 100%, 100%. Um, the topic of mental health in in our athletes today. Um, we touched upon it a couple of months ago, and you and I decided, hey, listen, this is a really important thing, and let's delve in and do our research and and find someone that can come on and help us understand what these athletes have been going through. Um, for example, Sarah Schultz, a track star from Wisconsin, Katie Meyer, a soccer player from Stanford, Jaden Hill, a track star from Northern Michigan University, Lauren Burnett, a softball player from James Madison University, and most recently Rob Martin, a lacrosse player from Binghamton University. These five NCAA athletes, Kevin, are no longer with us. We understand that mental health is an important subject, it's something that's maybe not as talked about as much, but like you said, it's gaining traction. And uh, like I said, yeah, you you and I have decided to delve in and do a little bit more research on it. And and and we have a special guest with us

Robin Scholefield

SPEAKER_02 3:47

this evening.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

Exactly. When we first started planning on putting an episode together on mental health, we realized we were no experts, and we really needed an expert to help us out.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Yeah, Kevin, you know what? It's an important, important issue, and yes, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 4:04

We are not experts, we are not, yeah, and and all I can say is boy, did we find one. I got to speak with her a couple of times, and I I really love her insight. Plus, Danny, she speaks our language nice and simple. So looking forward to this. Yeah, I'm telling you, she makes it easy for me to understand it. So let's welcome her in, Dr. Robin Schofield. She is the director of culture, well-being, and sports psychology at the University of Southern California. And I want to point out what her bio states. She spearheads department efforts to create and maintain a healthy department culture and an environment of well-being for all student athletes, which basically I think is what we're all striving for. So why don't we just welcome in Dr. Schofield right now?

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Thanks, Kevin. Thanks, Danny. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Doctor, thank you so much for taking the time with us tonight are these two knuckleheads from In the Crease podcast. Two two passionate lacrosse dads that started a podcast on a whim, and we've gotten to a point where we have something important to bring to our listeners and their children and other athletes in the country.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

Yeah, so Dr. First, can you just give us an overview of what you and your team focus on to create that environment of well-being for your student athletes?

SPEAKER_01 5:37

So, yeah, I mean, um I have, I'm very fortunate that I've been here a long time and have had ongoing support. Um, and I think um, you know, um under having, you know, being able to cultivate an understanding with our administration, who've been fantastic, and our coaches um gradually over time, you know, of what is really behind some of the the struggles we see. Um and so we've been able to create a structure where my you know my staff see um individual athletes from all the sports um for everything from you know performance enhancement to personal growth and development to uh very acute mental health issues. Um and then additionally, they are they are assigned teams, so they're integrated with teams and help with um team culture, uh performance, team cohesion, performance. So basically um on off-season, we focus on team culture. And and um during season, obviously, you're focusing a lot more on performance skills, but I think one of the things that is you know very evident is uh on teams where you have a better culture, you're gonna have less mental health referrals and less referrals in. Um and most of our student athletes, like probably 97% of them, come in voluntarily. Um and so um, you know, it's just I think the first athletic director who hired me knew that the a lot of the performance challenges really are of a more personal nature. It's not just perform managing anxiety, performance, you know, anxiety, and that you needed to address the whole person. And so that's been our philosophy. And and we've just kind of grown it from there that if you if you don't try to compartmentalize the athlete as a performer and an achiever, you know, and you because it's so this endeavor is so tied to their identity, and it that means it's inextricably tied to their core of how they value themselves. So if you work with the whole person, if you work with the whole team, if you are upfront about the culture and what works, what helps them thrive, what challenges them, and then you take that to the next level, which is the department level, really. Um, because you have to be in a department with a good culture to host teams with a good culture. So it's it's kind of been a trickle up thing.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

I I guess my question, because we have a lot of listeners out there, parents, coaches, and players, and if you look at it from your perspective at the university and what you're building there, kind of looking at the student athlete as a human being, person first, versus an athlete and then a student, I guess I'd put it, you're looking at them holistically. How can we, as parents, coaches, players, how can we help create that healthy environment?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

So absolutely. Um and it's a great question because what we're finding today is so I'll give you a couple little um dynamics that I've seen. I've been here 24 years, and like one example is when I first came here, we had performance anxiety, right? Since since the beginning of sport, there's been performance anxiety. It's normal, and it's it's actually one of those things where you know athletes learn actually to handle stress, they're actually very good at handling stress for the most part. But it would be more localized to sport. So as and what we we started seeing more in the last decade is that unchecked chronic sport performance anxiety has been moving into more clinical anxiety, generalized anxiety disorder, more specific anxiety disorders. That didn't used to be the case. It usually just stayed, you know, and you you dealt with what was some reasonable and manageable for the most part, uh, performance anxiety. It wasn't in a clinical space. And I think that sort of parallels sort of our societal focus more on achievement over character, right? And achievement in sport is not 100% controllable, right? You can control the how you work to improve your skill, your strategy, your athleticism, your mindset, right? But you can't control your competitor.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

When you put all your money on something you can't control, it will create a significant amount of anxiety, right? So society in general, it's happening outside of athletics. Why are why are why have we decided that now high school students have to have a college education and take 50 APs? It's developmentally inappropriate, right?

unknown 11:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Not letting the executive functioning evolve at the level of the content we're shoving in their head. That's because we've come to value achievement over character, over values, over self-management, personal self-management, over learning how to grow up and manage yourself, deal with disappointment, all those really important things that you need as an adult. And so I think that's that's in part why I think you're seeing what used to be just performance anxiety move into more clinical space. So, so um, is it is it really important that we create a healthy culture once they get here? Yes. But what parents can do from the get-go is not relinquish the most important role that they will ever have, which is that of a parent, not that of a coach, right? Not that of a sport consultant, right? For their children and and maintain their space um firmly in the character development piece and imparting the values. Now they can be exhibited through sport, they can be reinforced through sport, but to to keep their eye on the ball, and the ball is the character development and the resiliency and all those things rather than the number of trophies and things that they can't always completely control. And so to do that, they have to be really, really careful in their messaging because society is right now messaging that achievement's more important. And when you make it really clear that who they are as people is most important to you, and they internalize that and they get it. And so, and they and so wins and losses, no, no athlete, especially elite athletes, but any athlete enjoys a loss, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:06

They learn from the losses, you know, they learn from the losses.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah, we learn from them instead of like feel like shame from them, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:16

100%.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

And that's yeah, and so and you weather them better. So I when we we actually talk about this, like even with regard to so if you have a more well-rounded identity, if you know that win, lose, or draw, the people who love you are still gonna love you, and that that's the most important thing to them, right? You know, then you're gonna have more stability. You're gonna have built a solid foundation so that when there are some tough moments in athletics and tough pressures, um, and things like somebody, you know, like one of the things I marvel at is we have, you know, gold medalists in the Olympics, and like they barely get to like enjoy the success. And we have the media going, so do you think you know you're gonna come back in four years to bend your title? And I always feel like saying, you know, why don't you ask them, why don't they try doing it once?

SPEAKER_03 14:11

Right?

SPEAKER_01 14:12

It's almost like it's never good enough, right? It's never enough. And so it's like all those little kinds of dynamics, we've become, you know, kind of complacent and we've accepted them. And and it's, you know, I think the the human interstories of how people got, did those things is what's really interesting. But, anyways, parents have a huge role and can absolutely impact it. They have to help interpret coaches just like they have to help their students manage different kinds of teachers. Same thing, but they need to they need to not take that for granted and help interpret what the the student athlete is learning as they're growing and as children, and help them focus on the things they can control, which is how they react to things, how they value things. Um, and that's always what sport had to offer, right? In the olden days, you put kids in sport, right? Yeah, and the the thing is that sport grows great individuals and it grows great citizens, but it's not guaranteed. It needs it needs the coaches, it needs the national governing bodies, it needs the the people who oversee sport to uh to be the proper mediators of cult of building character, you know, to have the right values in order for sport to succeed in growing good individuals and good citizens.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

I heard a coach say one time, I coach all the kids the same but differently. And I understood what he meant because there were some kids that couldn't handle certain things and then other kids he could use to get through to the team. And I I want because I coached football for a long time, and I these little philosophies would come into play, and I would always at the end of the day say, they're kids, they're kids, they're kids. We have to develop them, develop their character, like we were talking about. And you know what? Sometimes I think parents are the problem. Parents sometimes are pushed to the point where that young man or that young lady might not want to do it anymore. You know, it's specialized training, get to the weight room, gotta do this, we got to get you to the field by four. Don't forget, Cindy, we have to, you know, and those pressures, again, some of these kids are in high school, 14, 15, 16.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Right. So I mean, I when whenever anybody starts talking about a group of people, I tend to think we're missing some context. So I don't think we have a whole generation of parents who are off the rocker, right? I think the parents, I think the parents are responding to their their perception of societal pressures, like the cost of higher education has gone crazy. It's far outpaced the cost of living, right? So, so um, you know, and and they're influenced by larger cultural trends as well. Um, so yes, I think I think parents have a lot more power to have a positive influence on the mental health and well-being of of their students for sure. Um, but I think um, you know, they're they're also responding to some of the pressures that they feel. And so um, you know, and and you hear a lot, I mean, I I got really tired in meetings of hearing about the overbearing parent. And some of that is the you know, like that the stuff that the the kids were up against, right? It um I'm I'm I'm big on community service, but it became a box checker for college applications and um like taking all the APs. I mean, if you go to these admissions nights, that's what they're gonna tell you. So the parents are so the kids are managing, you know, a lot in terms of the night the kinds of things that they're required. Plus, they have so much more information coming at them than we ever had that goes uninterpreted, uncategorized, and uninterpreted coming from social media, coming from the internet, right? At a time where their executive functioning, you know, it isn't fully flushed out until you're like 30, you know. I mean, it's mostly higher, early 20s.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

I'm still struggling with that, Doctor.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Yeah. So, I mean, and we're throwing more at them than they've ever had that goes uninterpreted, and um putting more pressure on them than they've ever had.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

So I wish I was taking notes because I'd I'd have 25 more questions to ask right off the bat, because you've said so many insightful things. One just being not categorized and everything the same. I think I look at that in in my own perspective. Uh as a parent, you know, as you know, Doctor, one of my children just graduated as a student athlete, Division II student athlete in lacrosse. That's why we started this podcast because we we love D2 lacrosse. But he has even given me grief because he's a he's a wise guy, about dad, why didn't you push me more? You know, I could have been you know a professional lacrosse player, or I could have played football or basketball. And I tell you, as a parent, when he was probably in middle school, especially middle school, I live in northern Virginia, and the pressure, like you just said, Doctor, for performance, neither academics or athletics, is off the charts in Northern Virginia. As and I know it's not the only region in the country, but I always struggled as a parent. Like, how do I balance that? Do I, Danny? Like you talked about, do I push him? Do I try to get him in the weight room, or do I let him just play the game?

SPEAKER_01 20:29

And and I think there's a middle ground. I think there's a middle ground, right? Because what are you trying to teach him? If you're pushing, you're not teaching. So what are you trying? What what in pushing, what are you trying to teach him?

SPEAKER_04 20:46

So that's a great question. I think I always answered it in the end in a couple ways. One, I want them to do athletics to get out and do something physical for their fitness. Two, it puts them in that team environment. Danny and I talk about this all the time, how important that is. Absolutely, puts them in a stressful environment. We talked about this earlier with you. Those kind of stressors actually help you grow. Yeah, absolutely. And finally, if you're enjoying it and it you become a passion of yours, then that is the bonus. That's not the end goal in my mind. But I but at the same time, because of those those performance pressures I was feeling with other parents' kids, it's it's just a whole thing that you even parents do with, and then you've got to compound that of what the what the child must be going through.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Absolutely. So, I mean, I think though that that one of the points you were making earlier was that you want to teach him the benefits of hard work, right? Dedication, determination, perseverance, hard work. And I think that um it's not One extreme or the other. I think you actually have to teach what that value looks like. You have to put words to the value. So let's let's let's watch this movie about this incredible athlete or incredible scientist and how much work they put into it. So you want to have those conversations. What does hard work look like? What are the sacrifices? What do those look like? When do we need to say, whoa, you know, like I'm sick, I actually need to stay home from practice. What are the parameters around that? We have to be able to address the value and flush out how it looks in a particular endeavor for the child. And then, you know, package it in things like other values, like you committed to these three months of soccer. The expectation is that you'll finish it if you want to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 23:05

Oh, my son has heard that before, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Okay, so that's a different thing. That's about the commitment to other people on the team. Right. But it's so that it's not an either or, right? You're coexisting and it's a family value. So you're going to say, I'm hearing you don't like this, I'm hearing it's overwhelming, I'm hearing it's affecting your studies, and that's a different, you know, something you want to purchase. But we're going to make do, and you're going to stay committed until this piece is over, and then we're going to reassess. And then we're going to talk about what hard work looks like, what your priorities are, those kinds of things. And that's a different kind of dialogue. Because, you know, like us parents, you know, we we parents thought we got really smart and we analyzed everything, right? We analyzed the heck out of sport and we're still doing it. We're putting measures to everything. Um, and um they got it. Oh, it's the referee, it's the equipment, it's this, it's that. And they can't control any of that. And that has been part of sports since the beginning of time. But we messaged around that instead of the controllable things, right? So your values, you know, how you look at things, how you respond to things, how you cope with things, how making decisions to invest more time and energy, all that kind of stuff. Those are all controllables.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Right. And so we want, if you want to raise an empowered child or person with agency, you need to stick in the stick in the controllable areas and your values you can control. Right. So you want to have those kinds of conversations and and still let them make the hard choices. You're but hopefully, you know, the earlier you have them, the earlier they start learning, whoa, that was a choice. Like I can do better. Um so yeah, it's just a different kind of conversation.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

That's that's great insight. So now we've parented and we've got our child in in the right way. You know, we think we do, and they're looking good and they're going out and they got friends, and they're, you know, they're going to the parties and they're still making practices and they're doing well. But some of them still struggle with other things.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

And I think they're afraid to talk about it as athletes. I think it may be perhaps a sign of weakness. How does it how can a a student athlete who's feeling these struggles, what should they do for themselves? Because, you know, they're in a dark place maybe sometimes and and they don't know what to say or or how to do it. What should be the important thing for that athlete to think about?

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Right. So however you're feeling, I think you want you want to encourage your student athlete child to understand that feelings are adaptive. And we we focus a lot on intellect, but feelings are adaptive, they're a big piece of wisdom and um and they help guide us, right? They're not something to be afraid of. And it's really important that you better understand them. And the best first step is to to find someone you can talk to, just anybody that you can talk to, because it'll help take yourself out of yourself a little bit. And and you start to realize, you know, I'm not defective. I'm just not quite understanding how I'm feeling right now and why I'm feeling that way. And and that's why that's where help seeking around mental health issues is a little more challenging for student athletes because it's just, you know, like I always talk about where there's a will, there's a way, right? That's a big thing in in sport. Um, mental health, it's not just about will, it's it's a little more nuanced. Um, you kind of have to lean in in a way that you're not used to leaning into yourself in in athletics, right? We're used to turning down the volume and how we feel and compartmentalizing. And that's very important skill. It's a hugely important skill. It's why Bank of America, Google, love, you know, all the big companies love hiring athletes because they know they're they're task-oriented, they know how to get a job done, right? And not have emotion interfere, which is fine. It's a great skill, but you also need to be able to have times where you can listen to and respond to emotion and help it, help it guide you. So you have to learn how to kind of balance. I call it honing your gut, but it's sort of understanding what your intellect has to contribute to whatever decision making, your heart, your values, or your spirituality and your body, all those things, you know, you need to pay attention to and figure out how to listen to those and in possibly in different proportions for different issues. And so, um, you know, we have to, I think, you know, we have a lot of professional and high-level athletes coming out and talking about mental health struggles as being normal. I think it's hugely helpful. There's a tendency because it's so shocking to student athletes and to lead athletes, this experience. It's so different. It's such a different internal experience for them that they want to warn other student athletes, whoa, you're gonna feel like you're not yourself. You're gonna feel in a way that you've never felt. And by the way, it's okay in your normal. And that's a great message. The next part is that we don't all go through and and recover from mental health the same way. And it's it's very complex because we have different stories, we have different emotional reactions to those histories and stories, and the way out is different for everybody. So by reaching out, when kids can reach out, they can start finding out that they're not weird, they're not defective, they're just having a reaction to something and it's saying, Hey, time out, you need to listen to me a little bit. And so, you as parents, what we want to do is say, if things aren't okay, not just I'm here, you know, for you anytime, but if things aren't going well, if they don't feel right, um, and even all the way to safety concerns, if you ever have a thought of suicide, I can hear it. I can hear it. And you're you I I've weathered things and I can take care of myself and my own emotions, and I can hear yours. And and that sends a different message, a more specific message than I I'm, you know, I'm just here, you know, whenever you need me. It starts to really speak to what emotional and inner life is like, you know.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

So yeah, and you, you know, I you and I'm sorry, sorry, Danny. Uh just quickly, uh, Dr. Skofield, you and I talked about this before. That kind of message is planting seeds, and it's not just done once, it's done many times to try to make sure that any loved one or person you care about gets that message. It's it takes it takes a lot of seeds to grow that uh and germinate that thought in someone's head that they know they can come to you at any time.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Right. I mean, just think about you know, think about going to your child now and talking about that. You're even as a parent, as a grown, you're gonna have a little bit of anxiety, right? It's not like talking about who whatever the game scores are or whatever, you know. And and so, yes, you know, um, think about the most important lessons that you've taught your child, they were repeated many times. And you so, yes, when it comes to mental health, you're seed planting. Um, and so just they could be like, uh, shut up, mom, or dad, or you'll get all the whole range of reactions and not to be deterred. That what they need to see is that that's fine, go ahead, you know. But I'm here and I can hear anything, and and I'm going to keep you safe. And that is number one part because academics athlete, nothing matters if your well-being's off.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

That's right. So true. I I'm so enthralled with now. I we could talk about we could talk to hours.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Robin, by the way, Robin.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Robin, I I have so many thoughts going through my head. It's such an important, yet so complex. Like you just said, it's it's so complex. Uh I live on Long Island and Long Island lacrosse is king.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yes, we have a lot of Long Islanders on our cross.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Okay, it's and and it's almost to it's almost sad to a point. The way these kids are pushed and and the direction that they're pushed. I'm talking early age, yeah, sixth grade, seventh grade is where this pressure is beginning.

unknown 32:38

All right.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Yeah, middle school, middle school, I mean, because I think you really start to see uh talent emerge in a more identifiable way uh in sport. And I think there's a correlation because my um my kids, not all of them, but uh were into sport. Um definitely they all were and used sport, but um the number of parents that would come to me and in during middle school years and tell me that their child was going to get an athletic scholarship to college, you know, and I would just take a deep breath and say, Well, I really hope it all works out. And like to me, it was almost like a sign that the kid was gonna end up burned out by the end of high school, right? We I always tell parents you need to be one step behind your child, not ahead in athletics. You need to be so parents get way ahead, right? They're looking for the best pitching coach way before the kid's asking. Wait for the kid to ask, right? And I and you know, the best way to help to help student athletes increase their investment in sport is for parents to reduce their investment in sport. As soon as they feel the parents let go a little, then they have to decide, like is it and they feel it. This is me at the helm. I'm not I'm not confused about why I'm doing this. So yeah, you want to you want to stay one step behind and uh in terms of where you are and and follow the lead.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

You know what? Robin, I think as parents in in today's world, I think we are behind because this is not the world that I grew up in. It's it's a different world. I mean, that there was one TV, you know, you got a bat, a ball, a bike.

unknown 34:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

That was it. You know, that was it. There wasn't anything else. And and today, I I can't relate a lot of stuff. Like I it's hard for me sometimes with my boys, you know, some when I was your age, one when I was your age, it was completely different. Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

No, no, we can't we can't do that. It's not helpful.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

It's just work, it it doesn't work. They're all I try to say, I try to I stop myself from doing it sometimes because I do realize they're not living in the same world I live in.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Not at all. Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

The social media, the precious, how many likes, how many right.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

The interesting conundrum is though that a lot of the things that serve them well throughout their life in all aspects of their life are still some of the same core values of responsibility and accountability and care for others and all those, you know, um honesty, integrity, those things are still the cornerstones to healthy well-being, right? Because well-being is entirely correlated with and contingent on healthy relationships. We grow and learn as people through relationships, right? So, so that's um that's super important and that is the same, right? But we also know that developmentally, you know, the 18-year-old from 40 years ago is not the 18-year-old for today. That they are maturing differently than we did, they are hitting adulthood markers more at the 24-5 age range. So we're we're now that's a broad brush, right? That's not across the board, but in general, so they're not as mature, and we're putting more on them. That just isn't a recipe for good developmental success, right?

unknown 36:39

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

So we have to be careful.

SPEAKER_04 36:42

I'm gonna have to just go sit in my room and and listen to this again and again and again and again to get these lessons. I I'll tell you what, Robin, this has been phenomenal. It really has. I'm glad it can be helpful, and I think it will be for our listeners because I think it's so important. Danny and I've talked about this off podcast. I can't even say how many times how important we think this subject of mental health and well-being is, especially going through it with our children and and seeing them. Even my some of my kids who aren't athletes, and you see what they go through, like Danny just hit on that. What they go through is nothing what I had to go through when I was their age. Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

And so we still like there's no small pond anymore in sport, right? No, no, social media is taking that away, and small pond is developmentally appropriate, right? Is to work things out that you know, you go from that family to the little community and and you grow from there, right? And that little community all of a sudden went away and became an and so it needs a ton of interpretation from parents at the developmental level that the kid is as this is happening. Everything. This is what the coach said, this is what he means. Let's talk about what it means. Does that line up with our values? You know, right? What do you do if you disagree? How do you manage that? You know, I mean, the this generation doesn't know how to, you know, we like I think I was talking to Kevin when I talking about if we wanted to have friends and the phone rang at home when we were children, we picked up the phone because there was no answering machine and you certainly couldn't see who was calling, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:26

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

So we had to learn when we it was something we didn't want to do or somebody we didn't want to do it with to say, great, but no, thank you. I've got other commitments. This generation didn't have to learn that, they just decided if the person that showed up on their phone, right? So it's created avoidance, right? That that coping strategy has been used hugely by this generation. That's not super empowering, right? Avoidance isn't empowering. You need to, so it's the same idea, you know, to come out the other side of mental health. You don't want to be, you know, stoic because that doesn't build inner strength. You need to face it and work through it. And and just like relationally, you need to, you know, we're very diverse. You're with anybody long enough and you're gonna disagree, right? Just ask every married person, right?

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Yes, you can ask my wife, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

I'm not even gonna touch that one.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Managing that, right? The testament of a good relationship isn't that there's no conflict, it's how you you handle conflict, right? And name your dignity in the other person. I mean, that's so that these are this is it's different, and they're they're going through these life life lessons at a different in a different way, at a different age than we than and and at warp speed, everything's at warp speed, you know, nobody has time to take time to make time to take time, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:55

You know, take that breath and relax a minute and just you know, hey, let me just take that minute from me. Let me watch the sunset tonight, you know. And you know what? I'm gonna take the dog for a nice long walk. And I know my middle son, when he was down or something, he would go play wall ball. That's part of lacrosse. You know, he would put the headphones on, listen to his music, and just throw the ball against the wall for an hour, and that would like relieve his tension, you know, whatever. And you know what? We have to we have to remember that you know, kids are people and they have bad days. You know, they some days, you know, we wake up on the wrong side of the bed for whatever reason, this one thing's bothering me, and I gotta get to work, and this, you know, person was supposed to call. Kids have those days too, you know, teachers being a pain in the neck to them, forgot that homework. Oh no, I'm in trouble. You know, hey, forgot about that written assignment I had to write. So they have those pressures as well. And then when you add the added pressures of sport and trying to excel and all of that that comes with it, it's a lot for these young kids today. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Absolutely. But Danny, can I pick on you for a second?

SPEAKER_02 41:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

So you just said teachers giving them a hard time. So, like for me, I'd be like, yeah, what we need to teach the kid is what is your responsibility here? Have you lived up to that first? If there's a relationship problem with the teacher, how do we address it?

unknown 41:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Because otherwise, we're teaching them to externalize, right? And so the question is like, I was talking to somebody from the National Alliance of Youth Sport, and they said, Robin, how do we help kids not feel so much pressure or deal with the pressure of sport? And I said, Well, you're asking if you're if you're looking at the developmental progress of a kid from zero to 20 or 18 in youth sport, you're asking this question. And what we need to be is like, why are they having why are they feeling so threatened instead of challenged by sport? Right? A challenge, not a threat. A challenge, you get regular performance anxiety. A threat, you get pretty you can get some pretty out there thinking about am I worthy enough? That increases risk of mental health tremendously. And so what we need to be thinking is what's the foundation we're growing for how they're valuing their sport and their their relationship with sport. So they don't experience it as a threat. It's gonna lower the anxiety, right? And they will see it as a challenge. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 42:36

That makes perfect sense. There are many, many things you have said tonight that make perfect sense. Uh, it's been it's been great, Robin. We can't thank you enough. I know we said it'd be about a half hour and we've been going for at least 45 minutes. So I want to thank you so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Did you know, Robin, you'd come back on again with us in a couple of months and we could discuss even further this, you know, this this complex issue of of mental health in student athletes. It's it's it's important. Like Kevin was saying before, we've talked about it off podcasts. And you know, I'm not an expert. I don't know what to say, I don't know what to do about it. I have my own kids, I know what they went through. Kevin has his own kids, and they all go through their own thing in a different type of way. Everybody handles it a little different. You know, son number one could care less, son number two was very astute, had to have, you know, the socks and everything, all the I's and T's and Sun number three was just kind of in the middle somewhere, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

They're all kind of a pool is vast, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:46

It's it's it's kind of crazy, you know. But at the same time, it's been a great time with them.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

And and I wasn't a pusher to the point where, like, you gotta get out there. I would always bring up like, hey, don't forget. You know, Billy's gonna take his pot. If you're not gonna go out, practice at least once a week or something, at least pick up the stick. That's what I would do. But I wouldn't do anything further. It had to be them. They had to say dad.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

So that's a threat, not a challenge. Well, what you want to do is change it out. See, I'm taking on you, Danny. But what you want to do is change the imagine the possibilities if you spend as much time uh you know honing your whatever skill in sport as you do playing video games, or as you do, you know, like or if you did a little bit of extra, you know, we know that extra practice, if you work on the things you can control, the technique, the strategy, the steps that build the technique, the athleticism that builds the strength, you absolutely you're improving your competency. It's not on unarguable, right? If you work on those skills, you're improving and and that needs to be the focus.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

Well, I'm glad I'm glad you picked on me. And um, because you know what, there's a lot of parents that do what I do.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Absolutely, and now they know loving and well-meaning, right? You take it's all loving and well-meaning.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

It is, it is, you know, it is. And but you know what? Now parents will understand your point of view over my point of view. Just yeah, and and you know what, maybe that's something they never did before or listened to before, because I think parents sometimes don't want to maybe get into that conversation with their kids. They don't know what to say. Oh, you know, my kid's having a bad he's having issues or anxiety issues or performance issues, or we don't know what to do. And so we try to do what's best. And again, Kevin and I will be the first ones to tell you we're not experts. And that's why we had you come on. And I'm so glad, I'm so glad you picked on me because you know, people are gonna learn from that. And I think that's something that we're trying to do, Kevin and I, is help people learn that hey, it's okay to not feel maybe up to par and go speak to somebody and go talk to somebody, tell them what you're feeling. I think that's important.

SPEAKER_04 46:24

Absolutely. And I think the insights you've given tonight about just how you can look at the at the perspective or you know, look at the problem and how you can kind of turn that around to like you say, it's make it a challenge versus a threat, or look at the person as a holistically and not so much performance-based, but as that person that you love. So Robin, once again, thanks for coming on. It's been awesome. And like Danny said, I may be bugging you again to come on again.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

That's fine. Well, Kevin and Danny, thanks so much. You're you know, bringing what I think obviously is a really important issue to the forefront and helping our parents and helping our student athletes. So I applaud you for that. And thank you.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Thank you, Doctor.

SPEAKER_04 47:17

We really appreciate it. Wow, Danny, did we hit the jackpot with an expert or what?

unknown 47:25

Dr.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Schoolfield's amazing. I would love to just sit and and just chat with her. I I was in awe. I, you know, she's asked if you had any questions. I have like a million. A million questions. I I didn't know which way to go. There's so many different avenues, and and wow, was she just an awesome, awesome person and so full of knowledge? And you know, she heads a big department there at USC.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

And she she said so many great things. She talked about the whole person, you know, looking at them as the person that is most important to you. You know, that they're as people, as a person, the whole person. She talked about messaging around the controllable things, including the right values. She said talked about mental health, it's not just about will, which a lot of times student athletes on the athletic side can try to will their way through a game or a practice. And I love the phrase she used with that, like honing your gut. You've got to understand. And it takes practice to hone your gut and understand not just the logical things, but the feeling side. Yeah. And she also talked, when we talked about your kids, the best way to increase your kids' investment in sport is to reduce your investment in sport. Let them lead, let them want to invest because then they own it. And then I would say probably the most important message I got, and the most important message I think we can send is when you're talking to people you care about, and you can say, if things aren't going well or you have safety concerns, I can hear it. I am here, and I can hear you, and I can hear it. Which I thought, you know, that message is not easy to say, as Robin pointed out. No, it's deep. It's deep, man. It's a difficult conversation. It's a difficult conversation to have because it's such a tough subject. But we talked, she talked about planting those seeds. Right. Not only is it tough to talk about, but it's even tougher if you have to go through it.

Thomas Glagano

SPEAKER_04 49:41

And that's what our next guest had to do. He had to do just that. Thomas Galgano, who was a starting defenseman this year for Adelphi as a grad student. However, he spent the last four years playing in Binghamton, where he was a teammate to goalie Rob Martin, who we just talked about in the beginning of the show.

unknown 50:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 50:03

From that tragedy, Thomas had to weather the storm and he also turned that around to do what he could to raise awareness on the importance of mental health and to help break the stigma that it sometimes carries. So why don't we just welcome in Thomas right now? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 50:23

Hi guys, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Hi, Thomas. How are you doing, buddy? Good, good. Hey, for everybody out in podcast landing, this is one handsome kid right here that you can't see, but he is one handsome kid. Uh Thomas, thank you for having me. And you're not biased, are you? Maybe a little, but no, he's just handsome. And I'm comfortable in my manhood that I can say he's a handsome young man. But but anyway, Thomas, thank you so much for coming with us again. Four-year starter at Binghamton. And you you played with Rob. And tell us what kind of guy was he?

SPEAKER_05 51:03

Oh, Rob Rob was great. Um, Rob was one of those guys that you know his entire life, his lifelong goal was to play Division One Lacrosse. And he had uh uh plenty of obstacles um in his way growing up, uh up until his senior year of high school that you know was going to make it tough for him to get where he did. But once he got that opportunity um from Coach McKewin to play Division I Cross at Binghamton, he he's a guy who you know took the most of that opportunity. Um he he was a great teammate. Um he was a hard worker. Like I always remember, he came in his freshman year. Um we were on opposite ends of of um our bodies. He was 160 pounds, you know, he didn't lift weights. I was coming off of you know a knee surgery, so I had some extra pounds on me. I was 220 pounds, and um, he was trying to lose weight and gain muscle, and I was trying to lose weight. And uh every year Rob made sure that I knew that he was coming for me and he was gonna be heavier than me, and he was gonna lift more than me. Um and and and and by our senior year, sure enough, uh Rob was lifting more than me. What Rob weighed more than me. Um, so that's you know, just the type of guy he was. He was always working to perfect his craft. And uh Rob was a goalie, he was an excellent goalie. Um, he came in and he got the opportunity to start, and he he was great. Uh, I think his first start came in the carrier dome, you know, which is not an easy task. Um, and he and he bounced back really well from that game and uh got a couple you know more starts. Um, but as you know, as time went on, and you know, the next class came in, uh, I don't know how familiar you guys are. We had a great goalie in Teddy Dolan, and he came in and he was really talented. So Rob kind of took a little bit of a back seat, which as somebody who was starting, you know, coming in as a freshman, I'm sure that was a little bit difficult uh, you know, on him. Um it that's that's not something that ever reflected or changed the way Rob carried himself. He still came to work every day. Um, he was still on the wall every day, he was still doing his juggling every day to work on his hand-eye. Um, and he was he was never you know down about it, never upset about it. Um, and he was just really the good teammate. You know, every single day uh you knew he was there and he, you know, he made his presence known.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Wow. Sounds like a really great guy.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

Yeah. So just a question for me. So did Rob then come back as a graduate student for Binghamton also?

SPEAKER_05 53:37

Yeah, so so that that shows you um, you know, how much Rob loved the game and how much he loved the friends around him. He hadn't started for four years. Um, he was you know certainly not going to start after you know Dolan had had had been a net for three or four years. Um that he was coming back to be a part of a team. He wasn't coming back, you know, to get the glory and the honor and the accolades that come with being a start in the goalie. And um, you know, he just wanted to be around the lacrosse team. He wanted to be around the guys, he wanted to be around his friends. So that that that really right there, you know, the goalie's the one position, you know, you're not splitting time, you're not just doing it. You know, he you know, he came back and knowing what his role on the team would be, um, and he just wanted to be around. You watch film of Binghamton, you watch those games, uh, a big save happens or a goal goes in. If you see the sidelines, he is five, six, seven yards out onto the field celebrating. Um, as excited as anybody else would be. He he was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

He's so he loved being a bear cat is what he's gonna do.

SPEAKER_05 54:37

Love the game, love, love binghamton, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:40

That's awesome. So then you transfer, not really transfer. You go for your graduate year at a Delphi, and then Rob has some issues, mental health issues. How how did how did that affect you?

SPEAKER_05 54:57

Uh it was tough. Um you know, for me personally, I had been someone that that Rob had confided in um on a number of occasions, which, you know, is something that at the time uh I was aware of the severity of it, but I was, you know, I wasn't aware of where he was at in his current state. Um and it's not something I've been familiar with. Uh obviously, after um his passing, I'm starting to learn more and more and as much as I can uh about mental health. And I I just had it known at the time. So when I will never forget um the text message I got uh from one of my friends, one of my teammates, um, just with minimal, minimal news, uh minimal um you know facts or details about what had happened, just um about that he had passed away. And my first thought was please know, please know, because I knew exactly what it was. Um it it hurt and it and hurt a lot. Uh it's not something that um I'll ever understand. It's not something that you know I really could ever understand. Um, and it it took a pretty pretty big toll on me. It uh, you know, I was already um having a little bit of a difficult year um with injuries and things like that. So, you know, it's just not that there's ever an ideal time for it, but you know, it added on to everything. It was tough. It was tough.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

So yeah, let me let me ask you something, Thomas. And when you were kind of like internalizing this this news and all this, you know, what what did you do to kind of handle that, you know, maybe that sadness or maybe that confusion? Because you you were like, you know, it must have been confusing. He's your boy, you hung out. Um, you know, you just said what kind of teammate and guy he was. And what did you do to get through that time?

SPEAKER_05 56:59

Right. So, you know, when it had happened, um it was difficult. And I was, you know, remember I was home by myself, and I called my parents, and um it, you know, it it was it it surrounds you, it it captivates you in your own head. You know, you just can't really make much of what's going on. Um, but I knew that I was miserable alone. I didn't want to be alone. I remember that night I uh went to go hang out with you know two of my best buddies just to be around some friends. Um and then I believe it happened on a Friday, and then uh on a Sunday, me and my uh, you know, the our classmates that were classmates with Rob drove up to Binghamton together uh to go to like a team uh wake and service. So it was difficult, but once I saw my buddies, you know, from college from Binghamton, um, who I obviously don't get a chance to see every day, right? And it made it made me feel comfortable, it made them feel comfortable. And you could just tell um, you know, right when everybody sees each other, it's just everybody was everybody was struggling, everybody was going through the time. And it was definitely um a positive thing to see your buddies for sure.

SPEAKER_04 58:11

So let me uh ask you this. And I've getting this question really from what you said about how you didn't know how to handle it, because I would not tell you is I'm uh 30 plus years older than you, and I don't think people my age know how to handle it either. It's a tough thing to go through. And so part of that is just as you said with your with your buddies on the Binghamton team, and I'm sure your your your teammates and the Delphi team, when you started talking about it, it it it's a bit of a catharsis when you can do something like that and talk about it. So I know that you have started to do things to kind of bridge that gap, I guess is the best way to say it, to make sure that not only raise awareness, but make sure that it's more comfortable to talk about, I guess is the way I'd put it. Is that what you're trying to do? Can you just go through kind of what you're doing to raise awareness and make it not an a stigma to even talk about it?

SPEAKER_05 59:16

Absolutely. Uh so like I said, I you know drove up with my buddies on on a on a Sunday to go to Rob's Rob's wake. Um and uh everybody, it it's just such a it's a it was a crazy feeling. Um, it it seemed so unreal. Uh you didn't really feel in touch with what was going on. Um, but I remember walking in um to the wake and seeing Rob's mom, who I've been fortunate enough to become closer with um over the last couple months. Um, and she gave me a big hug. And you know, at the wake we had talked, uh, we shared stories about Rob. And the one thing she left us with was don't let his name die. Do not stop talking about his story. Please share his story. And that's just kind of something that I've been trying to do as much as possible. That's the best way to honor the lives we've lost. Um, it's something that's not easy to talk about. But if I can get myself to talk about it and and you know, bring bring attention to it, you know, the hope is that that everybody else will feel comfortable enough to to talk about and to bring attention to it as well. So um that's all that's really what I'm trying to do. Um, that's what I was fortunate enough to have a little bit of a platform still, still playing um lacrosse at the time. You know, my guys at Binghamton were were were obviously honoring him in every way they could, um, but to bring it you know outside of upstate New York uh and and be able to, you know, get it out there on you know on a platform like you know, a Delphi Mem's lacrosse page and a Delphi Athletics page um that reaches more, you know, than I than I would be able to myself or any of my buddies who were done playing at the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:52

You did something else that was pretty admirable. You you you you used to wear 22. What'd you do?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:58

Yeah, yeah, switch my number to 43 um to honor him and to wear his number. And it's uh and I was coming back um from a little bit of an injury. So uh I had some days where I struggled and some days where I you know I questioned if it's you know what I was doing was right. Um and I would just look down, I'd see the number 43, and I'd remember uh you know how much work he put in and you know how much he loved going you know going to work every single day. Um and it served as a great reminder um for for not only me, but you know, for my teammates, you know, they're so used to calling me twos, twos, yeah, twos. And then you know, they they they would see, they would see 43, and then you know, hey, twos. Oh, sorry, 43. And then they would think, you know, and then they would think about it. Um, and they would think about you know the privilege that they had to play lacrosse that day and to go to work that day. And I think it was just kind of it was kind of good for us and for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

Um very admirable, very admirable. So now tell me about these t-shirts that made it all the way down to North Carolina with Rob's message. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:02

Yeah, so uh Shawnee boy, uh, for those of you who don't know, my cousin, uh Uncle Danny's son, uh he's coaching at high school down in North Carolina, he played at Wingate. So um, you know, meet with me uh going through social media and posting um all this about uh you know mental health awareness, Shawnee being the great cousin he was, you know, took it upon himself to get him and his buddy to make up some shirts um to honor Rob and to talk about Morgan's message, which is uh, you know, another great page that is doing a lot of a lot of really good things to you know bring some awareness. Um and when I, you know, when Shawnee sent me the shirts, I and I was blown away. I was very happy. Um, you know, because this is something that happened in upstate New York. Um I brought it to, you know, Long Island, I brought it to you know most places I couldn't. And if to see it travel down south, that's really what we're doing this for. Um, we wanted to spread it to everywhere we can. We want everybody to understand, you know, what the message we're trying to push is and if it's reaching, you know, you know, South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida, you know, wherever. Um, that you know, that's what we want.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

Well, guess what? Right now, the whole country knows now. Right. The whole country, coast to coast, my friend, coast to coast. We'll bring Morgan's message in and and Rob's Rob's name will continue on and and we'll continue on in your heart, you know, something it's um something that I went through last year losing my cousin. He took his own life as well. And it's a hard thing to go through, uh, like you said. Um, you're you are a lot younger than me, like Kevin said, and it's still hard. It's hard to, you know, in just absorb everything, and and we go through our own little thing, but you came out on top. You uh looked at that number and you thought about that number, and you you played on, and and we have Morgan's message, and it's going all over the state and and all over the country. And Thomas, you you you're a heck of a kid, and uh you're a heck of a player, but um I really appreciate you taking the time tonight to come on to the podcast and talk about this, this uh this issue of mental health. And it makes me happy that you're at the forefront and bringing that message out and doing what you can on your platform because it's important. Thomas, don't stop doing this, continue to do this because it's very important. And again, I commend you for what you're doing. I know what you went through was something that was very difficult. Um, I can't thank you enough for coming on tonight and sharing your story. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:46

Yeah, thank you. Thank you guys for having me, and thank you for uh covering this topic. It's really important. I appreciate it a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:52

Yeah, I would just add one other thing that I think is important when we talked to Dr. Robin Schofield, and she pointed out about planting the seeds of being there and saying, I am here, and I am here to hear you, to listen to you. And you try to do that with your friend Rob, and the more times, and you're trying to do that with your message now, not only by uh honoring Rob's life, but bringing that message of how important it is to reach out to someone when you are in need, and that there are people who will listen. And it's not uh strange, it's not wrong, it's not weird, it just is an issue that needs to be dealt with, and that your message is I think that we are here to listen. So we appreciate you bringing that to our listeners on this podcast and everything you're trying to do to bring that awareness to others.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:58

Thank you, guys. Thank you so much. Means a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:02

Keep planting that seed, Thomas. Absolutely, I will.

Final Thoughts

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

You're right, Danny. Thomas is an amazing kid. What he had to go through and what he is trying to do to raise awareness is just amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

Can you imagine being 20, 21 years old and losing a buddy that you've, you know, gone to weight room with and gone to lifts with and runs with and got on the bus with and you know, and won games at the car, you know, lost games. And just can you imagine what that's like at 20, 21 years old?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:36

I'll tell you, I I lost a high school friend of mine my freshman year in college. He had cancer. So it was a long, drawn-out process that we knew was coming. Something like this that Thomas had to go through when you didn't see it coming. That's that's devastating. That's so tough.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:55

Yeah, and you know what? It hit him hard, but you know what? He sought out, he sought out his friends. He didn't want to be alone. Okay, so that was his way of handling it. Not to say that it he wasn't hurt or emotionally, you know, um whatever, taken back by it, but he went out and he sought his friendship. He wanted to be with his butts, and that helped him get through it. And then, of course, Morgan's message, and then you know, the admirable move of changing his number to Rob's number, you know, that's just to me, that's that's big. That's to me, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, just again, that's something that somebody went through on the other side, you know. Hey, my buddy, my buddy, my buddy.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:40

Yep. And it meant uh it meant a lot to him being able to see that number to help him through his tough times with his injury and everything else. But you know, Danny, as we were talking with Thomas, it occurred to me that in our first ever player spotlight, when we were with CJ Hart, and we talked to him about the group that he started, the advocacy and awareness group called the Head Game Project, which is really all about bringing awareness to mental health again. And he's doing it up at St. Anselm. Right now we have come full circle and we're doing our own show on this topic. And you just discussed it. There's so many other groups like this, not just this one show, but there's Morgan's Message, there's the Head Game Project, there's a group called Goalies Matter. There's a lot of them out there trying to help break that stigma, all trying to raise awareness to let people know it's okay not to be okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:36

And and you know what? And there's other people there like you, like you, there's other people there that are feeling it, and they're gonna hear you, like Dr. Schofield said. They're gonna hear you, they're gonna hear your words. So if you're not feeling like yourself, seek the help that you need.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:59

It's there, it's there. Yeah, and and you're exactly right. And it's it's tough to reach out sometimes, and sometimes it's easy, easier to talk to friends or relatives. Other times you may want to reach out to someone and be anonymous. And what I want to point out is there's a resource that's coming out that's set to launch on July 16th, and that is 988. That's the number to call. It's the mental health version of 911, and it's meant to connect people in mental health crisis with those who are specially trained to respond to those types of situations. How phenomenal is that? Yeah, and I hope it becomes as easy in our vernacular as 911 to say dial 988. Dial 988.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:50

And and and you know what? Again, um this this this issue of mental health is something that's super important, but I'm loving the traction that it's getting. It's getting more and more traction. But that's you know, that's not gonna bring Sarah and Katie and Jaden and Lauren and Rob back. You know, but maybe maybe it's it's gonna help the next Sarah and the next Katie. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:14

That number, the groups we talked about, things we can do. Let's all start trying to plant those seeds in any way we can, starting with the ones we hold dear. And with that, Danny, that's a wrap. That's a wrap.