Transfer Portal Pros and Cons

SPEAKER_05 0:10

Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of In the Crease with Danny and Kevin, a coast-to-coast discussion of D2 Men's Lacrosse. I'm your co-host, Kevin Stenstrom, and with me as always is the Brian Wilson of D2 Lacrosse.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

Oh, if I only had a voice like him, but it's summertime, Kev. It's been summertime here in Rockaway Beach, man. It's been a great summer. The weather's been phenomenal. And uh I've been doing some bike riding and some golfing. I love it.

SPEAKER_05 0:45

I love well, so that's what's so funny, though, Danny. Like, I came up with this. I thought it was a little obtuse, but I didn't think it'd be too obtuse for you. I figure you would figure it out. Brian Wilson, the leader of the Beach Boys. Figure Danny living in Rockaway Beach. It's summer. He's kind of a beachy kind of guy. Yeah. Playing a lot of gigs.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

Yeah, a lot of gigs. Very big, and it's been a very busy music summer. That's that's for sure. And that's always great, too. You know, I love that stuff. So yeah, it's been fun. It's one of the best, one of the best summers I've had in quite a while.

SPEAKER_05 1:22

That's great to hear. That's great to hear. We've been laying pretty low here in Northern Virginia. Um, we just we we took a a quick weekend trip down to San Antonio to visit our son Ronan, who's he he turned 25 yesterday on Sunday, August 4th. The man's doing well. He's doing well. He uh he's itching at the at the bit to get back. He's in the he's a kind of in a awaiting phase before he goes to pre-dive again. Um and so pre-drive phase training. So he's like chomping at the bit to get going and and keep moving along. But we had a good time. That was probably our big, big thing that uh my wife, Ken and I did this summer. Other than that, we've just been hanging out. Uh our two other kids are home because they're both in school. Our oldest is a PhD at Pitt and then Avery um at Hofster, right near you. So it's been fun. We've been hanging out with them too.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

But you know what else I did this summer too, Kev? I uh went to a tournament game out in Long Island, went and saw some high school tournaments. Uh oh man, I missed the smell of the sweaty oh, bags. The sweaty bags and and I don't miss that. And the smell of Bloody Marys in the morning. But uh yeah, I went out, I went out to see uh some 2027s play out out in Stony Brook University. Oh wow. Uh friend of mine's son's uh a uh rising sophomore, plays for 91, big club out on Long Island, and they played Leading Edge, which is a big club out of Jersey, and Leading Edge was amazing for ninth grade kids turning into 10th grade. I was so impressed with the play. I really both teams, these kids are so good, man. It's it's amazing. It is great.

SPEAKER_05 3:06

I've been watching clips. The PLL had their like junior academy games at at Johns Hopkins this weekend. I didn't I didn't watch any games, but I saw a bunch of clips, and I was talking to our son Ronan about it. U-12 with their stick skills. Now they're not bad. I mean, they're relatively fast, I'm sure, for their kid, but you can see the difference in speed between them and watching high school or college, but their stick skills and they're passing on the money at uh, you know, at 12 years of age. Well, just think about it.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

Crazy. At 12, they're they have the Little League World Series, right? Those are 11 and 12 year olds for the most part. Look at how good those kids are. And they're coached, you know, like they're coached. Yeah. And these and they're playing like a high-end quality game.

SPEAKER_05 3:56

Yeah, but I haven't seen the way it is, the way it is, and I think lacrosse, how the the skill level just continues to increase at a younger and younger age.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

Yeah, these were ninth going into 10th graders. I watched there were some big kids on the field too, man. Some of these kids are big, man. Like I was damn. I was but you know what? I miss tournaments, I miss it. Yeah, you know, I thought when I was done, because I had three five years apart, I spent 18 years of tournaments. You think you had enough, right? You know what? It's in your blood, it's in your blood. Oh, it was fun. It was a little rainy, and I don't care. If my buddy was hanging out, he's like, I can't believe you came, man. So Greg, if you're listening, you know, thanks for the invite. I'll come again.

SPEAKER_05 4:38

That's awesome. That's awesome. So, Danny, first episode of our season five. Can you believe it?

SPEAKER_04 4:49

I can't believe it, man. I can't believe it. I was looking the other day through some of our podcasts, and I just like, wow, we recorded that many podcasts.

SPEAKER_05 4:59

It's gone by it's it's it's so much fun, it feels like it just blurs by. And and it happened in a second this summer. We've had over 75,000 downloads for this. We always say we didn't think we'd get 20 when we started this thing. I didn't think we'd get one. One, me, and then you. Yeah, so we're guaranteed two, right? Right, right, right. But anyway, to start off the season, I think we picked a cool one. And actually, it was your idea, Danny. So why don't you want to explain what we're gonna talk about today?

SPEAKER_04 5:37

Well, folks, you know, I think a big part of uh college sports these days is the transfer portal and what's going on with college ball in general and how it's affecting a lot of colleges and kids and stuff like that. And, you know, I've talking to players and talking to coaches and just talking to people who are in lacrosse. And, you know, there's so many different opinions about it. I just thought it might be an interesting topic to talk about tonight.

SPEAKER_05 6:07

Yeah, I think it's a great idea. It's been around the portal since 2018 now. Right. And it was intended to bring greater transparency to the transfer process and really help facilitate that same process for the student athlete. If you think about it, it was a tool for the 21st century. That's basically what it is. I mean, we're in the in the digital age now, so you think about a portal making it easier for student athletes to reach out to multiple coaches. I mean, back in the day, Danny, when we were in the college age, it's probably sending letters and getting on the phone. And this is probably a way to do it. But with that, and with that idea of transparency, which is a great ideal, there's a lot of pros and cons that come with it.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Yeah, there's a ton of pros and cons. There's a lot of good to it, and there's, you know, not so good to it. Like I watched um uh I was watching an interview with Rick Pettino, the basketball coach, formerly at Kentucky, then was at Louisville, kind of got in trouble for there. And then he went to Iona, right? So he was up up in Iona, and that's the Mac conference. And he talked about how, all right, the Mac wasn't the greatest conference for Division I basketball, but there was a lot of really good players in the conference. And if they had a good year, they were gone. Yeah. And he said one year, like by his third year of doing that, like all the best kids in the Mac conference were gone. Who was going to the bigger school that Duke, the Kentucky, the the you know, ECLA or whatever, whatever it may be. They were leaving the smaller schools in the Mac because they were good and they had good years. And so Patino was like, I'm not even recruiting anymore. He goes, I have um, he goes, I used to have to replace six players. Now I have to replace the whole team. You know, now now he's like, instead of going to AAU games and high school games and and stuff like that, he's going to his players, like, hey, are you staying or are you going? Like, you know, it changed the whole dynamic, I think, and for coaches.

SPEAKER_05 8:22

And think about that. When we had Coach Levine on, and he talked about the first thing he had to do when he got hired at LIU was try to talk to his players to not go into the portal. Right? Because the thought was like, and it can be understandable, right? So let's flip it. One of the positives, I think, is the fact that back in the day, not too long ago, if players transferred, student athletes transferred, they had to sit out a year before they could play. And yet the coaches that recruited them could leave, and they didn't have to sit out a year when they went to a new school.

SPEAKER_04 9:03

Big argument there, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:05

So if you look at that, Levine having to do that in some respects makes some sense because those players don't know what deal they're going to get. Like, am I going to, you know, this isn't the guy who recruited me. He's going to bring in his own players. But I think sometimes, now let's flip it around again. Then sometimes the perception is that student athletes players look at that as I've got to, I they rush to judgment. Like, I've got to go. This, this instead of giving it a chance, give an uncomfortable situation, which you're going to be in uncomfortable situations when you are in life at any time, giving that uncomfortable situation a chance to see how it unfolds and what you can do and how you can grow from it.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

Well, I think there's two types of kids in the portal. You know, the kid that's really, really good and looks at and says, Hey, I think I can get to a uh a bigger school or a school with a better program and with a chance at a national title, and they do that. Or then you get the kid that maybe's not seeing playtime. And he's like, I'm not playing, I'm out of here. So I think there's two types of kids in the in the portal, huh? What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_05 10:22

I think there can be. I think it's even more dynamic than that, because it's all other situations. You look at Ivy League and what we went through with COVID, Ivy League does not allow players to play, I think past four years, and they don't allow graduates to play.

unknown 10:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

So all those kids, because of the what the COVID rule, they had if they wanted to play out their years in collegiate sports, and we're talking lacrosse, collegiate lacrosse, they had to leave, even though they didn't want to. Yeah. You know, so that may be a unique situation, but I think it really points to some other dynamics you've got to deal with. Let's look at the other side, Danny. Let's look at what does it do to team dynamics when you bring in players out of the portal, and that's a constant.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

You know, I think it's gonna piss some players off, you know, the player that was next up, you know what I mean? Yeah. You know, here here, let's say a senior senior graduates, and this kid's been sitting for two and a half years, getting a little burned in his third year, and now it's like it's my turn. And then, you know, coach goes into the portal and brings in some brine all-American, you know, Under Armour kid, and you know, who wasn't maybe playing at Maryland, will come down and and play for a smaller school that's got a good program. And that here's the kid that's been fighting for a spot, going to all the reps, going all the lifts, waiting for all the runs, waiting for his spot, like the old school. The old school, you earns your spot, you know. Yeah, you didn't. So there's that whole, well, some of these kids might be soft kind of thing in there, you know what I mean? There's that too, I think. You know, some of these kids are like, I should play, I should be playing. And they like they leave because they think they should be playing.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

I I think I was thinking about it the other way. If you've got a player that is waiting for his turn, and it's his time, and the coach brings in a guy that basically takes his spot, maybe his same year. So maybe he's rising senior. This guy brings in a senior that now takes his spot. What does that do to the team dynamics? He may try his hardest. It's not an easy situation. We talk about this. You've always got to be ready to keep your spot or earn your spot. There could be a freshman that comes in and is better than you. That that can happen. And I wasn't a player. You we've talked about this. Neither one of us played lacrosse, and especially didn't play at the college level. Like, what does that do? I think it all depends on the team, how the coach deals with it, and how the players deal with it.

SPEAKER_04 13:05

I think, you know, I think it's a difficult situation for all involved. Right. You know, the coach has to keep, you know, the kid that he recruited, you know, and like, oh man, you know, I gotta talk to this kid now and kind of keep him down and calm and you know, make him understand or whatever. And that's not easy for a coach. That's no, that's that's the hard part of being a coach, you know, trying to, you know, why did he do that?

SPEAKER_05 13:28

Why did he bring that other player?

SPEAKER_04 13:30

Comfort a kid, you know what I mean, like that. And then there's coaches out there that just want to win, Kev. Yep. And and they're going into the portal and they're bringing in, you know, guys that are gonna help their program win. Yeah, so you got those coaches too. So it's a lot of different dynamics, isn't there, in this transfer portal.

SPEAKER_05 13:51

I I can't, I don't think in my mind, I can see that there's right or wrong. It's just very dynamic. And there are pros and cons, and it's how it's dealt with, probably at the team level, coaches and players, to make it work.

SPEAKER_04 14:11

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of kids are entering the portal, probably more than we really think, because we really only hear about Division I football. That's like, you know, that's major. And these guys are getting NIL deals, and there's some lacrosse players that are getting NIL deals too. Yeah. You know, look at Joey Spolina at Syracuse. He's with Gate, you know, and Gate lacrosse and NIL is is a totally just adds to that dynamic, multiplies it, not just adds.

SPEAKER_05 14:42

I mean, this is to exponential when you're dealing with NIL now, which we could get into probably in another episode.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

So now you got a blue chip kid that not only wants the scholarship and go every anywhere he wants, he wants money too. Yeah, you know. Next thing you know, he's doing a commercial for uh Bait Chevrolet on Route Three in the town of the school, you know, and he's getting paid for it. You know, that's what's going on. I know where Bait Chevrolet is. You know, that's what's going on in college ball. Yeah, and like, you know, and I do the numbers, I was looking trying to find numbers, like exact numbers of kind of division two alone. And across all sports, Gab across all sports in Division II, 48% transfer to another division two school. Okay, wow, yeah. 22 go to D1 and get money. Okay, 10% go to D one and get no money. Now, this is across all sports. I'm not talking just lacrosse because I couldn't find those particular lacrosse numbers. I was looking for just D2. Yeah, right now in D2, there's 890 names on the transfer list. 890. That's a lot of that's a lot of kids, man. Yeah. So now I know a kid who transferred now his th this is his third school coming up this summer, lacrosse player. Went to a D1 school, didn't get any burn, transferred to a D2 school, did well, put up numbers, played. Uh the team did very well. And kids going into a D1 program, he's leaving. He's leaving, he's going to another program, third school. Now, the the Division I school he was on in the beginning was a really bad team. They're really bad. The team that he's on now is better than the the first team at Division I. Yeah. I don't see him playing. Yeah. You know what I mean? So now what happened there? Is it he's just too far from home? Is it, you know, the kids, some kids are like, hey man, I'm too far from home. I gotta get out of here.

SPEAKER_05 17:05

Uh yeah. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Well, and I think there are just so many dynamics to this, Danny, that we and I think that's what was fun about this is just talking through him. I'm sure we're everyone's kind of dealing with that. And it comes probably down to a personal choice in some respects. I mean, I think I have my my thoughts. I think I have some things I would have I I said to my son when he was, you know, in playing about that. And you know, he's always I've always taught him, you know, like, hey, you committed, committed to this program, stick it out, that type of thing. But that's from my perspective as a 61-year-old now, right? Right, right. So I find it really interesting.

SPEAKER_04 17:42

Yeah, because with age comes wisdom. And when you're young, you you want to play. You know, you want to play. And I think, I think if you transfer, sometimes you might lose, like, I'm still friends with my college guys. You know what I mean? The guys that I went to school with. I'm still friends with them. They just met in Florida like two months ago. They called me up and said, come on, Dam, you know, we're all hanging out for a weekend. We got hotels, we got bars, we got cigars. So, you know, like I hang out and and still talk to my college friend. So I think that that that college bond is something that, you know, is pretty special. And if you're a kid that's like transferring all over the place, you might lose that bond a little bit. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 18:25

I hear you. I hear you. And I I totally agree with that. I think it's a it's it's tough. But you know, maybe they're doing it for a certain reason. So I this like we said, there's so many things that uh go into it. Uh, we could be here all night.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

Yeah, I think it's tough for the coaches. And you know what? Here's another dynamic I think. I think in Division II and lacrosse, I think if teams want to be relevant in the national picture, they're gonna have to go into the portal. I think you're right. I think they have to use that as a tool. You know, I think, you know, it's time that maybe some of the schools, you know, you know, like there's schools that are just gonna get transfers because they're great schools, like Tampa. You know, kids want to go to school there. They don't even care if there's lacrosse there. They just, you know, it's a nice school. It's in a beautiful state and a beautiful town and right on the water there. It's it's not a hard sell. And kids are like, hey, you know what? I'm not playing at Towson or Loyola, so I'm gonna go down to Tampa and play. Yeah. You know, and and and what coach wouldn't take those kids? You know what I mean? That's that's the other side. I hear you. I hear you. So I so I think that in order for teams moving on in Division II, especially now that we have uh automatic qualifiers and trying to get to that national championship is gonna like it's gonna be a different road this year and in 2025. Um, I think schools are gonna have to go in to the transfer portal if they want to be relevant. I agree with you. I totally agree with you. They're gonna have to give the money, they're gonna have to give them a good chunk of money, too. It's not gonna be easy to get a good D1 transfer to come to your school if you're not offering them a nice piece of uh key lime pie, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 20:21

Like I hear you, I hear you. And with that, Danny, though, we could talk for a long time. Two knuckleheads just talking about the portal and whatever we think we know, but we never played, we never coached. So we're bringing in some experts to discuss their experience with the portal from a lacrosse perspective.

SPEAKER_04 20:39

Experts too, Kevin.

SPEAKER_05 20:41

Yeah, and this is interesting because I think this kind of rounds out some of other similar episodes we've had. You know, we've had episodes talking to D2 lacrosse players who went pro. We've had several episodes where we talked to D2 coaches who moved to D1. And now we get to talk to a couple players who use the portal themselves to go from D2 to D1 in their graduate years. And what's even better is they showed what a D2 player can do at the D1 level. They're both balled out, man. They did, they did. So let's welcome in Torrin Eccleston, former Lenore Ryan attackman who went to St. Joe's, and Anthony Caputo, former MIDI for Pace, who went on to Jacksonville. Yay, boys. Welcome, guys. How you doing?

SPEAKER_02 21:32

How you guys doing? Pleasure to be here. Good to see you.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

Really excited to be here. All right, fellas, we were talking about the transfer portal tonight. You know, it's a big thing in college sports these days, you know. And uh, we look at all the players that are just using it to go wherever they want. We had a pro and con conversation. Hey man, is it good? Is it not good? Is it good for the kids? Is it good for the coaches? Is it good for team chemistry, like all that kind of thing? Of stuff, but you guys were ballers at Baltic Schools at Paste Anthony. You were just an amazing player. I saw you actually win games by yourself. And Torrin, you have been wreaking havoc in the SAC for a long time, my friend. It's just the second you got there. You're a big boy, you're not afraid to mix it up. You got that Canadian in you, man. It was it's been I watched your all four years of you play, Torrin. I really did. And I watched it at St. Joe's too. I said, I want to see how Athleton's doing. I turned you on one day and then I did the same thing. I said, I want to see how computers doing. And what happened? You came down and fight. I think you guys did you guys play high point at home? Was it high point? That's who it was. You guys played high point. You nailed one from like 12 yards. I was like, God damn, Anthony's Anthony's doing just fine over there. And then Eccleson taking his team to the NCAA's, just balling out like, guys, first of all, congratulations for great careers and everything. I mean, just what you guys have been able to do. How was, since we're talking about the transfer portal tonight, how was the transfer portal useful to you? And why did you decide to go into the transfer portal? I'll start with you, Torrin.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Um, all right. So I uh originally went to transfer portal probably in like October of my senior year. So I was pretty early in the transfer portal because I was looking to get uh a master's in finance, which wasn't offered at um Lenorein. So I was kind of feeling out what schools had a master's of finance, so kind of hopped in the portal. I wasn't really sure if I was gonna end up using my extra year, and then that fall I went on a couple recruiting trips and ultimately just decided on St. Joe's.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

Yeah, from from from Hickory to Philly, yeah. And Andrew, what about you? What about you, man?

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Um, so I actually ended up going to the portals sometime similar to that. I think it was December, um, which was pretty early as well. But uh, so I went down to Jacksonville in January and I watched him play. It was awesome. Um right by the beach. Coach's staff was fantastic. Um, I felt really welcomed when I got down there. And uh, so I was like, you know what, I think this is gonna this is what I want to do. Um, and I always wanted to take my game to the next level. Um nothing, I mean, nothing against peace. Obviously, I love everybody there. Um, I love the school, everything about it. Um, I just wanted to see what I could do, you know. Um so I I knew I had an extra year from COVID, and uh I entered the portal and I was grateful that Coach Galloway ended up um ended up hitting me up on uh on my phone and I was like, yep, I'm definitely gonna go down to Jacksonville. And then I uh ended up heading over there and uh I had a blast.

SPEAKER_04 25:01

It's funny. I think about it. Anthony played in the north region, went south to play D1. Yeah, Torrin was in the south region, went north to play D1. But the call doesn't bother him too much. He's all right with the code.

SPEAKER_05 25:15

So talk to us, um, and we'll start with you, Torn again. Like, how does that actually work? So you put your name in the portal, and then are you just waiting? The coaches reach out to you. Is that how it kind of goes? It's kind of like the way you were probably recruited to begin with. And then you said you both of you did it, and there's my other question. You both kind of did it in the fall before your your last, but then you played that season for did you play that season for LR? And yeah, you played for pace. So it's really they were almost recruiting you not for the incoming right away to start in January, but it's actually the next season that you were being recruited for.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah, exactly. Um, but just going off your first question, um yeah, it's basically just like how you get recruited in high school, they'll text you, email you. Um, a lot of them will ask or like talk to your like head coach, like a lot of them talk to coach P at L R before they end up reaching out. But ultimately, just text phone calls as soon as you enter the portal.

SPEAKER_05 26:14

Interesting. And was that the same experience for you for Anthony?

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Yeah, it was the same thing for me. Um, pretty much just wait to see. Um, I did hit hit, um, I did end up emailing a couple coaches. Um, you could reach out, um, but realistically, you just kind of like sit back and wait, see what kind of offers you get. Um, and then like Torrin said, it's they they'll like either to contact your coach or um they'll contact your email and then you pretty much just go from there. Do you get a bunch of offers, Torrin?

SPEAKER_04 26:45

Did like you know, a lot of guys say, hey, listen, or we got this and more than three?

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah, I probably had upwards of like 15 division ones. Wow, wow, and what about you? Division two or D three would hit me up, but I was kind of D1.

SPEAKER_04 27:04

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What about you, Anthony?

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah, I mean, I didn't have as much as Torin, but um, I had a few D1 schools, um, but then it was a lot of uh D2, D3, um, which was uh pretty cool, which is a really cool experience.

SPEAKER_05 27:21

Yeah, that's interesting because especially what you said, Anthony, that you wanted to try to bring it to the next level. Danny and I obviously we were very partial to Division II lacrosse, and we don't think it gets at love that deserves. Totally understand your reasoning. I don't like to call it the dip, it's another level, not uh a higher level. It is a different level, and it you're but you are competing probably more consistently with better players against better players all the time at the D1 level. Did you, Torrin, think about like D2 or D3, or were you always kind of like Anthony wanted to try D1, or was it more like the right fit for you for a graduate program?

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Uh I just really like the right fit. Um, I probably wouldn't have left LR if I decided to stay at the D2 or D3 level. Yeah, yeah. Um, I couldn't really go to like a program that I thought would have been better for me at that point. So it was mostly just like looking at D1 today.

SPEAKER_05 28:15

Yeah, I totally understand that. What was your what did the coaches say? What did Mariana say and parroting say when you guys were like, hey, I want to transfer?

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Um they kind of understood. Um, they kind of saw where I was coming from, and their support supported me the whole way. They helped me. They always gave me a good like recommendation to coaches, and I mean, I was just talking very high with me, so I can't really thank them enough for that.

SPEAKER_04 28:47

Interesting. And what about you, Anthony? Same.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Yeah, same thing. Um, Coach Brianna was very supportive of me. Um, he re led me in the right direction. Um, it was great. Um, we had a uh a nice talk about it too. Um and it was yeah, just the same thing as Torrent. Um, really supportive, and uh I couldn't thank them enough for everything they did for me.

SPEAKER_04 29:09

Now, let me ask you guys this kind of like I guess like a poignant type of question. Um, do you think it's good that we have the transfer portal in college sports? Do you do you think it's a good thing?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Uh I personally think it's a really good thing. Um, I mean, there's so many kids that just like you go there your first year, especially, and you they just don't like it, they don't have fun, they don't have like ultimately that's like the main part of going to college, I think is having fun and especially playing college sports, like you don't want to hate your life the whole time. So I think those kids like a chance to like redo it and like pick another school if they decide they don't like it. Right. You feel the same way, Anthony.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Yeah, I'm a big fan of the Transit Portal too. Um, like Torrence said, you know, it's all about having fun and uh finding the right fit for you. You get to meet new people too. Uh I made, I mean, I made a bunch of new friends, guys I can call brothers for wife now too, even though I only know them for a year. But uh it was an experience that I wish everybody can experience. Um, but yeah, I mean, I'm I'm a huge fan of the transfer. I think it's great.

SPEAKER_04 30:22

You know, there's a lot of old geezers out there, like, you know, that's bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

They should just stick it out and play. God damn it, that's the way it used to be. You used to earn, you keep. It's not like that.

SPEAKER_04 30:33

That culture's gone. You know, that World War II culture is gone now. And you know, some I'm an old geezer, so I have a little bit of that in me. You know, hey, some kids are soft and they're like, hey, I'm not playing, I'm going somewhere else. You know, instead of, hey, they're at a great school with a great coach with a great program, and they got you know, everything at school they they could want, the best professors and all the best of the best of the best. And they're like, I'm leaving because I'm not getting any burn. So you got those kids too, you know. So a lot of some of them old geese and some of them old school guys are still like, you know, the portal's not good. It's messing up college ball, you know. I don't think it is. I think it's changing it.

SPEAKER_05 31:18

I think your two perspectives why you want we want you to come on the Toronto what you said about like sometimes you go to a school, right? When you're being recruited, it's like probably your it's like your first or second date, you know, with your girlfriend, right? It you're never no side is gonna try to screw up, they're always gonna show their best face, and that doesn't happen when you get to the school, right? You go on the recruiting thing. I remember my son going to schools and they have his name on this nameplate, you pull up to the admissions thing and he's treated like some rock star. Well, when you get there, it's not the same thing, Torn, like you said, right? And it may not be the same experience that you have. And should you suffer for four years in a program that really, in the end, you thought was a fit, but really wasn't? I think that's a very, very unique perspective. So let me ask you this, because we talked about this when Danny and I were talking about this. What does it do to team chemistry, team culture? When you were both at, and I'm gonna flip it both sides. I'm gonna go back to when you were at Pace and at LR. And we'll start with you, Anthony. When you were there, did the coaches bring in any transfers while you were there?

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah, so um my junior year, uh, we brought in my friend Kyle Casey. He was an Albany transfer. And right away we knew that he was like he was pretty much the standard, you know. So he came in fantastic leader, fantastic lacrosse player, and like he came in and we were like, okay, like this is what it's what it's like to be on like uh to to have a leader that really knows what he's doing. Um you know, and uh it was just it was right right then and there we knew that Kyle was um that we everybody wanted to follow Kyle and like so because he was leading by example, you know what I mean? Yeah so I think that was a big thing.

SPEAKER_05 33:08

Um but it was you really well, it wasn't like a disruption to your team, it was almost like a true addition.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Oh, absolutely, true addition, yeah. Absolutely, 100%.

SPEAKER_05 33:19

And Torrin, what about you? When you were at LR. I know the coach has brought in uh transfers before. I don't know if he was did it while you were there and how that experience happened within your team and what the chemistry was.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Yeah, we really when I was there, we didn't really bring in that many transfers, but okay. My senior year, we brought in a couple. Um Riley C, he was a loyal transfer. I mean, he kind of just like epitomized, like just like an ultimate team guy, and just kind of the exact same thing. He was saying he was like he was just great leader, and like kind of brought that like attitude from like D1 that like he wasn't like the best player ever. Like he like kind of just accepted his like whatever like Coach P, whatever his role, and put it in, even though he was the best player in our team, in my opinion. Yeah, he just kind of like was accepted accepted his role.

SPEAKER_05 34:15

Yeah, it's that's interesting because we've talked to both your coaches on this podcast and off the podcast, and it seems to me that they are trying to pick players that are gonna fit within the team culture that they've already put together with the the players they have. Would you agree with that? That's kind of how it how it went for the players you saw. Yeah, I agree 100%. Yeah, me too. So now now, Anthony, let me go. Let's flip it. You go to Jacksonville. You said that you know, when you went on your recruiting trip, they were really accepting and it felt really good. Did that continue when you got on the team and was the were the players accepting of you? I can see that, Danny. I talked about this because I've been on.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

You know, there was one mini that was pissed. There was at least one said, God damn, this kid could play, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

Yeah, they were all super accepting, super welcoming. I mean, I met them the first time in the uh in August, I think it was August 8th, was the first time we went down there. And by August 11th, I saw those kids as I was like, yeah, this these are gonna be my boys, you know. Um, and before we even stepped on the little crossfield, and there was nothing ever personal between it, like it was always like we're gonna go play, we're gonna have a good time, um, and everything will work out, you know. So um, everybody was super welcoming, even the coaching staff, like everybody around. Um, it was it was just a great, really great experience.

SPEAKER_05 35:44

That's awesome. And Torrin, how about you? How did it work out at St. Joe's?

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, really similar experience. I mean, I'm kind of like a shyer kid, so I mean it took me a little while to get pressed up my shell, but um not when you step on the line, man, not when you step across those lines.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

There's no shyness, man. On you, well, go ahead. I'm sorry for interrupting.

SPEAKER_05 36:06

Yeah, that well, Danny, let's just point it out. He was the bane of our existence for several years. Yeah, Lenore Ryan Wingate games.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

Yeah, Wingate couldn't beat him.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

But um, yeah, like I like I've made like friends for life, and like even though I was only there for a year, like those are some of like best friends, but I text them every day, like text more of those guys like every day than the guys I've had hung out with at LR, really.

SPEAKER_05 36:33

So that's awesome. That that's awesome to hear. It sounds like the same thing. The the coaches at St. Joe's and at Jacksonville were picking guys that they knew would fit within their culture. But let's point it out, Danny. I I kind of told the overall stats, but if you look at it, it kind of mirrors what their roles are and what they did. But you look at what they did at their schools, Anthony Caputo, 13 goals, 18 assists for a total of 31 points while he was in. Dishing dimes, dish and dimes, and then Torrin doing exactly what we hated to see when we played against them: 24 goals as an attack man, six assists. He doesn't need to assist, just give him the ball, he'll he'll bury it for you and a pretty tough conference, too, man.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

You know, so what do you guys think of some they play some big games, St. Joe's?

SPEAKER_05 37:22

And so does Jacksonville. I mean, they stack it. What do you guys think? Playing did D2 help you in at your schools and playing in those programs help you think prepare you for the at the D1 level?

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Absolutely 100%.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

How about G Torren? Yeah, I agree. Um, kind of just like the foundation is just the cross again, so it's not like different D1 to D2. I don't think I think it's just four years of practice and four years of getting better.

SPEAKER_05 37:53

Well, and I think you're both the programs you were in, and there's a lot like that in D2, that they're at the Danny and I have talked about this, right? Your schools could play a lot of D1 programs, your D2 schools, and beat them because that's how your your coaches, your players uh when at Lenore Ryan at Pace, that was the level they were at, and you practiced like you were at that level. The only difference between that is probably resources and the amount of contact time you can have with your coaches, right? Yep, so yeah, just really amazing. So, what's next? What's next for you, Torn? Are you still at St. Joe's? Are you still finishing up your your degree? Are you done?

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Uh no, so I have like three classes left, so I'll finish those next like calendar year, just online. But um I'll be heading down to Georgia in the fall or the end of the fall for the NOL season. Um you're playing for the swarm, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:54

I got drafted. Oh, that's right. Wow, congratulations, man. So Doran, that the Georgia Swarm, my favorite team. My I have my my uh my uh sister and my mom live literally 15 minutes from the stadium, and I I watched a couple games. I went to the stadium and watched a game with my sister and brother-in-law, and I love the Georgia Swarm, so I can't wait to see you in a swarm uniform. Isn't isn't Lyle on the swarm?

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Yeah, Lyle.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

Yeah, yeah, man. That's gonna suck playing with him, right? Yeah, horrible. I tell you, I look, I look at Lyle, I look at the PL. He hasn't been playing in the PLL, but I still think Lyle's the best player I I've ever seen. Oh, yeah. I mean, in post with my own eyes, you know. I mean, just what he was able to do. Like, I can't just believe it. Like, he's not the biggest guy, he's not the thickest guy, he's not the fastest guy, but man, he just somehow he gets just gets his hands free and he can just shoot it from anything. He's just an amazing. So you're gonna have a lot of fun playing with him in Georgia. And what about you, Anthony? What are you doing with yourself?

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah, I'm doing the same thing. I mean uh I gotta finish up my master's program, so I'll finish up in May or yeah, April or May, whatever school ends. Um, but uh yeah, I'm just doing school now. Um, I want to go into I'm finishing up my master's in finance, so hopefully I can get a job next summer and uh I'll figure it out from there.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

Are you gonna look to stay in uh Florida?

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Uh I don't know yet. It's depending on I'm right now I'm trying to get a job in New York City because I'm uh I live out on Long Island, so I'm only like 40 minutes from the city. Yeah, so uh and my my my father works in the city too, so I could always take a drink.

SPEAKER_04 40:41

So there you go. There you go. Well interesting, good for you guys, man. Really appreciate you guys coming. Just been awesome having you guys on.

SPEAKER_05 40:50

Yeah, man. Yeah, totally awesome. We really, really appreciate you coming on.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Yeah, we really appreciate it. Thank you guys so much.

SPEAKER_05 40:57

Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you again. All right, Danny, as always, bringing in the experts, a lot of fun, but great perspective from their side.

SPEAKER_04 41:06

Yeah, it was interesting, you know. The transfer portal wore it's hard for me to say. I got like marbles in my mouth. The transfer portal seemed to have worked for those guys. You know what I mean? They used it to their advantage. And you know what? On the other side of that, they were four years at their original school. They had a fifth year, you know, the one didn't offer the major boom. I get that, you know, and it worked for them. They're really good players too, Kevin. Yeah, they were both all Americans, they were both all region, all conference, all any tunnel. Eccleson's a beast, man, with the stick in his hand. He's tough, man. Big boy, 6'4, 200. And Anthony, I don't know, a midfielder that can shoot harder than that. That guy, that guy can shoot the rock, man. You know, he's a great player at base, you know, and and he did well at Jacksonville. And he's, you know, Division II, like, I still see a lot of you know people poo-pooing division two. Like, that's is that even a division? Like, you know what? Yeah, come down and play some of these big boys. Right. You know, they can play. They got on your ass. Yeah. You know, yeah. Like, you know, some of the you know, the bigger division two teams that are, you know, nationally ranked over there, like their defenses, they they match up physically with a lot of D1 teams. There's this defense. Oh, yeah. Some some teams average what, 6'4, 230 on the defensive close side. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:33

Some of them boys are big boys out there in the aren't that big, but they've got great footwork and and they can play. It's the same thing on the offensive side. You know, you look at Willie Grey, look at Willie Greco. Not a big guy. No. But fast, great first step, great stick work. Yeah, great password, high IQ, great vision. Yeah. I mean, so they're all over the place. But I thought their perspective was really good because we didn't touch on a few of their things they talk about. One, how and that's why I asked the question, how when transfers came into their schools at Pace and Lenore Ryan, and how the guys that came in were just stellar, fit right in. And I think that goes to the coaches and who they bring in, right? And then how they were welcomed. But even and then even more what Torren says, like, yeah, I think it's a great idea. The portal's a great thing because you can go to a school and it just is not for you for whatever reason. It could be academic as well. Look the reason why he changed, he left. He left because he couldn't get a finance, a master's in finance at Long. Yeah. So there's like we talked about the beginning, there's always some different reasons. We can't, we had a lot of different pros and cons. There's a lot more out there. That's why I think this was a fun episode, educational on my side of here from their perspective.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

And you know what, Kev, the culture of our country is changing. You know, the way things are done nowadays. Like, look at these, like I I'm watching Instagram of these club teams, and these kids are like 12 and 13. They got they got their names out there already. Yeah. Because of social media. Totally different dynamic. It's a completely different culture, man. You know, and and you know what? These kids, some of them are like, hey, you're right. Uh I'm at this school. I got to the school. I it was so exciting when I got recruited. I was 17 and a half, didn't it? Wasn't even 18. And you know, I came here like, this place sucks. I don't want to be here. Like, there's nowhere to go. There's nothing to do. Everybody's just doing one thing. There's like, you know, and and it doesn't fit, you know. And the kid's like, I'm out. And then you got the kid that's, hey, you know what, I'm not playing. I'll go somewhere else. And you know, that's okay too, you know, but that's the way it is. And that's the way it's going to be. Right. And like I said, I think, you know, our culture's changing and the world is changing. And and like again, kids got, you know, athletes are getting paid now to play football and basketball. Right. Even some of the Division I lacrosse players are getting paid now. Yeah. You know, they're getting stipends. They're different world. Yeah. They're they're, you know, recording commercials to beat Chevrolet down on Route Three, you know. Come on, come on out. You know, and he's wearing his, you know, the hat and the shirt. You know what I'm saying? So it's a different culture than when we came through. I went to school in the 80s.

unknown 45:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:30

You know, you you went, you earned your keep. If you didn't earn your keep, you weren't playing. You know, that's the way it was. And if you transferred, you were gonna sit a year. So players thought about twice about do I want to really sit a year? Some players did. I know basketball players that said, hey, I'm out, and they sat a year and lost a year of eligibility, but you know, to each his own.

SPEAKER_05 45:52

Exactly. And I I think like we said at the beginning, I think that is I'm glad that that's kind of changed because it wasn't fair to student athletes that they have to sit out when coaches didn't. But there's just so many different, like we said, there's so many different nuances to this. Yeah. And I I think it was great, a great discussion, first between you and me, as we mainly because we haven't talked all summer, except for texting each other. So it was fun to do that. And then to get you know, Torrin and Anthony on and really get a player's perspective from it. And I think that was really important. You know, we've talked to coaches about how they use the portal, and and I think this is just another another side of the story that was great to talk about.

SPEAKER_04 46:35

Yeah, and again, the one my one big thing is like, like, okay, now that you know division two has automatic qualifiers, are these coaches that are on these better teams, you know, do is it relevant that they go in to the portal if if they need a piece, you know, because I think in order to be relevant in division two, in order to get a national championship, I think teams are gonna have to go into that portal.

SPEAKER_05 47:03

And I think it's also gonna be interesting. I agree with you. I think it's also gonna be interesting on the volume of student athletes in the portal now that that COVID year of eligibility has stopped. Is you're not gonna have, I don't think it'd have that kind of numbers, but it'll be interesting to see how that works out.

SPEAKER_04 47:24

I personally, I think there's gonna be every year, I think it's gonna be more and more and more. Because, you know, there's just an average number of kids that just leave anyway. Yeah. You know, they they went to the school. There's gonna, you know, a school's carrying, let's say they're carrying 57 kids on the roster. There's gonna be three, four, five that are like, you know what, this ain't for me. I'm not really playing, I'm not doing well in classes, maybe I'm better off going somewhere else. Or so they leave anyway. So a coach is gonna have to replace those five guys. But who's he replacing them with? Is he replacing them with recruits or is he replacing them with portal guys?

SPEAKER_05 48:04

Yeah, I think it'll be both.

SPEAKER_04 48:06

I think it will be too.

SPEAKER_05 48:08

Yeah, all right, all right. Great, great discussion, a lot of fun. But interestingly, Danny, even though it's summer, I think you told me you have a few shout-outs, and I have a I have a few shout-outs. Do you want to go first? You want me to go first?

SPEAKER_04 48:22

My only shout-out of the night, so I'll go first. Okay, you got the better one. Goes out to Lake Erie Goalie, Gavin Conlan, played for Team Ireland in the U-19 World Games, U-20 World Games. Ireland beat England in the finals to take home the world champion, and my man Gavin was named goalie of the tournament. Oh, that's awesome! Yeah, so big shout out to Gavin and the Conland family who loves you guys.

SPEAKER_05 48:56

That's awesome. Yeah, so my shout out to Danny, even though we've been in a hiatus, we actually got some fan mail this summer. Recently. As you may remember, I announced many episodes again sometime in the in the 2024 season, that fans could reach out to us, besides Instagram and Facebook and Twitter now called X. They can reach out to us through Buzz Sprout, which is our platform of distribution for a podcast to all the podcast platforms. And it was another way I was hoping to be able to interact that we could interact with our fans. Unfortunately, what I did not know that when they reach out and they they go and do the fan mail through Buzz Sprout, we cannot respond. Like we can I get an email that says we got fan mail and I share it with you, but I go into Buzz Sprout and it's like I get it's usually a text, right? So it's a text number, I get like the last four numbers, I don't get the number. And if people ask us questions, I'm like, they think we're blowing them off because we haven't talked to them. So uh yeah on this podcast, I just say if you do reach out to us and you want us, if you reach out to us via fan mail on Buzz Sprout, we we encourage that. Just if you want us to respond, please add an email address so we can get back to you, and we will get back to you. You can also, like I said, you can reach out to us on Instagram at in the crease d2lax. So who was our fan?

SPEAKER_04 50:32

Who was our fan mail?

SPEAKER_05 50:33

Let me no, I will tell you in a second. We got sorry, get get out Twitter at D2Lax Podcast or on Facebook at in the crease with Danny and Kevin. So now here's the shout-outs. That was a long intro for a really important shout-out. Our first fan mail came from a lax mom in Flagler Beach, Florida. She said this was she actually reached out right after the season ended, and we just haven't done anything. She said, sad the season is over. I'm a D2 lacrosse mom from Florida. Love the podcast. I haven't missed a single one. Love the show and energy. Can't wait for fall ball to begin. And really, Danny, I can't wait for fall ball to begin either. So that's all she said is last time. She left her name. Yeah. Yep. All right. All right. So the other one goes out to Brian Palladino from Long Island, Lindbrook.

SPEAKER_04 51:28

That name sounds familiar, man.

SPEAKER_05 51:29

He even said, he goes, I'm I'm close to Danny. He just found the podcast this past spring, and his son, I think, played for a travel team for Gordon Purdy. Okay. And got recruited and is going to Adelphi.

unknown 51:46

All right.

SPEAKER_05 51:47

So congrat Brian, congratulations to your son. Really excited. Really happy you reached out. Brian had a few questions for us. So, Brian, please, if you're listening, send us another fan mail. Give us your email address. We'll give you our answers to your questions. All right. Brian, those welcome to the family. Love it. I love it. I love it. I love when we hear from fans on anyway. We've had several guy. Italian guy from Limbrook. He's got the Italians coming in. Pretty soon will be just knocking on your door, Danny.

SPEAKER_04 52:19

You'll be guys sharing a I wonder if he's related to John Palladino. I wonder.

SPEAKER_05 52:25

Well, maybe in his next fan mail, he'll let us know.

SPEAKER_04 52:28

Okay. All right. We'll find out. We'll find out.

SPEAKER_05 52:31

So welcome to the family, Brian. Love it. I love it. That's about it, though, Danny. Those are the shout outs. The two two fan mails we've got this summer. We wanted to throw a summer episode out there to let people know we are still around. We uh haven't uh moved on. We're planning to come back, so stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

The groove, the twos, the moves, romance. Give me a soft subtle mix. And if it ain't broke, then don't summertime. Adjust the base and let the outline last. Pop in my C D.

SPEAKER_05 53:01

Pop in my C D, y'all. So yeah, so we're gonna get ready for this season. So stay tuned for our episodes uh this fall and our coaching changes. We're just getting prepared for those and our 2024 to 2025 conference previews. Oh boy. Coming quick. Right around the corner. Yep. And with that, Danny, that's a wrap.

SPEAKER_04 53:29

Hey Cup, it's good to see you got some tan on you. Good it was a good episode tonight. And uh that's a wrap.